12-05-2007, 05:59 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aken, Germany
Posts: 233
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A block of six 3000CM cars, numbered 00121 to 00126 was registered early April 1953 by Alfa Romeo in Milano.
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So I assume the numbers of the first series of cars were:
MI 212035 chassis 00121
MI 212036 chassis 00122
MI 212037 chassis 00123
MI 212038 chassis 00124
MI 212039 chassis 00125
MI 212040 chassis 00126
I was wondering for a long time about the cars in Le Mans.
The only photo of a car with a visible registration number was the 21 of Sanesi. Since some days I own a photo with cars 68 and 23 where their plates are clearly pictured. Obviously the 23 car of Karl Kling carried the same MI 212039 on its back like in the MM. Further the spare car 68 has the registration MI 212038.
The only car missing is number 22 of Fangio, propably MI 212040...
So I think that Henry Wessels indeed owned Fangio's LM car.
About posting photographs here, I have to admit that I wish to support more of my statements with photos or scans. But on some of them is a copyright that is still valid and as I want to avoid trouble I need to respect that
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There are still some mysteries.
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Indeed there are! As the questions what car was crashed in Spa and what car did Kling crash at the Ring? Further the project 3000 PR, etc...
Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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12-05-2007, 08:44 AM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iicarJohn
Thanks to the diligence and passion of an individual who prefers not to be part of this discussion for reasons that I sympathize with, I have just received the missing pages and images of this thread and my opinion has changed. Before I was merely intrigued. But now ... thanks to the early and continued input of a few, primarily Boudejwin and Karlsson and their collected images, I now agree that this thread has some real value. Despite the many errors.
Also, I found some of my missing photos as well as a bit of additional data.
Now there is some real work to do. If there are no real objections, I will organize the material a bit and re-present a portion of it so that it tells the story that can be told. I will try to credit the source of each image used as well as some of the data. Never fear! There are still some mysteries.
This will take some time so there is no need to start holding your breath just yet.
Best regards,
John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
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12-05-2007, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
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Milano plates and other unfinished business.
Before the Milano plate listing posted above gets cast in stone, I will only say that the plate assigned to 00121 has not yet been identified (to me) with certainty. It seems likely but is not yet verified. It is also possbible that this car was registered a bit earlier? I've never bothered to check and I received all the other plate information more than 20 years ago from another source who did the research himself but did not record all the details. He was looking for "lost" cars that he hoped to find, so his focus was a bit different than just "history".
The other five plates, MI212036 - MI212040, are listed correctly.
That said, it takes very little effort to remove a plate from one car and use it on another, either accidently or with purpose(?) so a thorough study should not rely on the plate alone for the identification of any car. The plate, alone, can only be used to imply the official identity of a car and may not report the actual identity. Practical experience has taught some of us to be not entirely trusting!
On another note, I have been informed that I do not have permission to use all the material that has been supplied to tell the story that would like to be told here. Although disappointing, I think the story can still be done, albeit incompletely. It wasn't going to be "complete" anyway! However, some individuals who are involved with moderating some of these threads might consider why one very good and conscientious source feels strongly that we (he & I) should perhaps work on a presentation that should be offered in a "more serious venue". One serious beef that has been aired, and which I agree with, is why a certain "banned" individual has been allowed to participate in various "discussions" even after his aliases (some of them, anyway) have been revealed!
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12-05-2007, 05:24 PM
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Is there any clue about the appearance of the 6C 3000 PR that crashed in 1954 driven by Consalvo Sanesi ? Drawings, photos, small reproductions... anything that could help
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12-05-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordi aragvalls
Is there any clue about the appearance of the 6C 3000 PR that crashed in 1954 driven by Consalvo Sanesi ? Drawings, photos, small reproductions... anything that could help
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12-06-2007, 04:13 PM
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In fact, at least there´s a FB kit (1:43 scale) in resin about it. The problem is that is poorly detailed and I´m seeking for references before starting it
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12-10-2007, 12:02 PM
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While we're collectively holding our breath ...
Here are a couple of pages from the somewhat short-lived American magazine "Auto Sport Review", September 1953. A couple of nice photos plus some interesting comments from someone who was at an Alfa Romeo event near Rome in 1953 (Summer?) where the "Disco Volante" moniker was applied across the range of these cars.
If anyone "needs" larger versions of these scans, please email me with a normal email address and I can send the original scans which are at 200%.
John de Boer
iicarATearthlinkNET
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12-10-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordi aragvalls
In fact, at least there´s a FB kit (1:43 scale) in resin about it. The problem is that is poorly detailed and I´m seeking for references before starting it
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12-13-2007, 12:20 PM
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a couple new pictures, at least for me
The roofline gives a complete other impression of the 602
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12-13-2007, 11:01 PM
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Still holding ...
Once again, from Auto Sport Review ... a bit earlier in 1953
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12-13-2007, 11:07 PM
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And now .. 1955
From the Monza yearbooks published 1960-1966 .... in this case, 1962.
This image just about has to have been taken in 1955. Without information to contradict, it would seem likely that this was chassis 00127? Or was it??
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12-13-2007, 11:12 PM
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1953 Mille Miglia
And from Primavera Bresciana ...
Sorry! I don't have the originals. These are scan of photocopies.
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12-13-2007, 11:15 PM
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More Primavera Bresciana
Still photocopies.
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12-13-2007, 11:23 PM
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Still Primavera Bresciana but
Not necessarily a "true" Alfa Romeo?
Luigi Bellucci ... postulated earlier to be in 00002 but perhaps actually in another "special" that was known as MI0029853MI (???) that perhaps had (or didn't have) more Alfa Romeo involvement than has been implied by the guesses that have come before?
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12-13-2007, 11:31 PM
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More distractions
From Sorlini's archive ... now with Giorgio Nada
and from Sports Car Album 1953 (Fawcett 181)
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