6C3000 CM - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #136 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2005, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
BTW the cars looked like 1900 Supers, with a different grill, but used Willys engines and drivelines.

--Carter
Called Bergantin.

Use this as keyword on google for this off topic - another call to Simon for the split of this thread - sorry, it's 2.38AM here, I leave it to you.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2005, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv2000
Look at Wessel's existing Colli coupé recreation. Sorry, it's NOT the original car. First thing you notice, windshield upper shape is compeltely wrong. They had to do with an existing glass, as far as I know, because recreating an one-off windshield is beyond wallet reach. But if you look closer, it's not it either from other angles, albeit I reckon that craftmanship showed by who did the job is actually remarkable.
I remember Wessells talking once about the difficulty and expense of patterning and making the windshield from scratch, because there was nothing similar. There is some variation in the shape of the cars, and some seem to have more peak to the front of the roof. But the problem with Henry's car for me is that it is too pretty.

--Carter
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
Busso is no longer with us, and that is our loss.

Fifteen years ago Borgeson introduced me to Busso, but warned me that he could be a bit difficult. My letters from him, in perfect English, and carefully hand written, are prized possessions, and I am grateful for his assistance.

But even just a few years ago, he was helpful to others and his memory was clear.

To attribute his lack of response to you in such a manner is incorrect.

--Carter
I was introduced to Busso by Lurani, so that might have been at least part of the problem. I understand Busso had a lifetime "feud" with some of the people at Alfa, and maybe Lurani had come down on the other side of the equasion.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
I remember Wessells talking once about the difficulty and expense of patterning and making the windshield from scratch, because there was nothing similar. There is some variation in the shape of the cars, and some seem to have more peak to the front of the roof. But the problem with Henry's car for me is that it is too pretty.

--Carter
I agree. In some of the pictures of the cars "in period", the bulges and scoops look a lot more like last minute "blacksmith" work than on Henry's car. But the way, did he sell it? I'm of the understanding he did about 2 years ago...
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:13 AM
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Re 6C3000 CM Spider. I don't know if this can be regarded as a relay able source, I don't have the CD, but it can be of little info


http://www.victorybydesign.com/movie...o_script_6.htm

For the 1953 season they became even more adventurous. This is a 6C 3000CM. They built four coupes and the one spider. The end of the year they decided to enter Fangio in this car in the Super Court Magiori grand prix. Well he did very well indeed. He won it.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:28 PM
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First of all, I don't want Carter's posting to be forgotten...
Quote:
What we really need is for an authority to pick up this Disco Volante thread and separate it from the original lost topic.
Code:
Re 6C3000 CM Spider. I don't know if this can be regarded as a relay able source, 
I don't have the CD, but it can be of little info
Many thanks for the info!

I hope noone regards it as spam when I recommend "Motorfilms Quaterly", Vol 6 & 7. Both issues are availiable on video or DVD.
Among many other interesting topics, you find the Shell Film about the 1953 XX 1000miglia
It's worth the money, although I was angry because the film is split on two DVDs. Normally I hate getting trapped by these smart ideas to raise sales figures ....
Anyway, the film is a great documentation of the 1953 race. You get a very good feeling of the event!
Especially the audio is the real thing! I apologize in advance, but the sound of the Ferrari engines always creates an immediate gooseflesh on my arms To be policical correct, just seeing the 6C Alfas causes the same reaction, lol
And while thinking about the Colli Coupes, a little detail comes into my mind that I would like to share.
I am already curious about your opinions...

Please mention the upstanding item on the roof, above Fangio's head!
Obviously a funny gimmick; did he visit "Q" before his mission?
It's definitely not an item lying on the track, nor is it standing upright due to a damage.
It's a special construction on the side of the roof to get fresh air into the car. As far as I could check out, it opens automatic when driving fast. When driving slow, it drops down again.

I may be wrong, but I mentioned this "automatic cooling system" just at the car of Fangio. Really coincidence or a special modification for Fangio only?
Remembering that the MM 1953 was his first race in Europe after his very serious crash at Monza 1952. Before the 1000 miles race, the public was worried if he still had the speed of a champion
OK, Fangio did some training in Argentina between his release from hospital and the MM. But a comeback at race that is so demanding for body and mind was risky for Fangio and for Alfa as well. 1000 miles in a closed and tiny car must have been absolutely fatiguing!!!
Please take into consideration that - in opposite to LM - the second man on the car usually was a riding mechanic and navigator.
With this background, the 1953 MM race was anxiously regarded as crucial for Fangio's career. That's why many Fangio-fans today regard his 2nd place in this race as one of his best performances ever!

Before I get completely lost in this topic, I have a last question for the experts....
Who knows something about Emilio Di Guiseppe???


Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2005, 11:55 AM
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I did not know about the periscope on the roof of the Fangio car. I assumed it was a light of some type. I know nothing about Di Guiseppe, but have contacted somone at Alfa who might know something. I believe the photo at the bottom is of the 3 liter version of the C-52 testing at Monza.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:02 PM
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I think the scope theory is very original, but when I look at the picture I doubt it seems an integrated part of the car.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2005, 03:17 AM
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Emilio Di Guiseppe
Carlo , you tread from 21/10-05 pictures of engines, take a look at the gay that stands in the back , in the middle of the picture with the 4cyl engine. and compare the picture of Emilio Di Guiseppe. could it be the same person?
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2005, 03:37 AM
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It is raining in Denmark , and for a les knowledge person. the information in this tread is tremendous

Emilio Di Guiseppe
Boudewijn tread from the 18/10-05 with the pictures from assembly.
you don't know from witch locality these pictures are from, but do you have any expectations.
the collar picture of The Disco Volante that is getting an engines , take a look at the gay that is supervising the installation. Is there a similarity?
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:14 AM
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Getting back to the original topic, in November 1982 Thoroughbred & Classic Cars printed a Doug Nye interview of former Alfa Romeo race driver and team manager Giovanni Guidotti. Guidotti joined Alfa in 1923 and continued with the company into the 1950's.

Here's what Guidotti had to say about the P3."To us they were always Monoposto Gran Prix, only much later did the journalists start to call them P3".

And the Pallavincino car in particular. "I was worried by the aerodynamic shape of the new German cars. I prepare seven cars for Scuderia FerrarI to use since Portello is out of racing and Ferrari, our agent, is running the team for us from Modena. I talked to Jano about improving the shape of our car but he is worried about extra weight. Jano was very clever indeed. I'm not taking anything away from his original shape, but I thought we maybe could get closer to the Germans. Ingegnere Pallavicino, progettista of Caproni Aviation had been Captain of my brother during the war. On day I go to Caproni, Monte San Pietro, Bergamo, and Pallavicino say 'Eh! Guidotti my friend! I will be delighted to help you design a new Gran Prix body' I tell him we would be delighted to have his help, but Jano doesn't like and we cannot pay. Still Pallavincino did the work in his spare time. I'd sketched a rough shape and he did it properly using his greater knowledge. Only wind tunnels in Italy then were for models, but we didn't use one at all. Jano had told me if you wany to enjoy yourself build your new bodyshell in your own time, but you can use our plant and materials.So we built the Pallavicino body on our own test car. On test on the Autostrada was tremendous - standard body massima 238-239 kph, Pallavicino body 281 kph, and where cross-winds made the standard car weave dangerously under a bridge on the Autostrada the new body with its tail fin made the car run stright, like a sword-thrust and at AVUS Guy Moll drove the car and won. Hans Stuck, the Auto Union driver, I saw him a few years ago and he say 'Remeber the AVUS? I was second. Oy, oy, my clutch was broken, otherwise I'd have got your boy'. "

Doug Nye adds. "The aerodynamic body was considered unsuitable for subsequent road racing use and was scrapped. Today(1982) a replica is being built with Guidotti's assistance at Portello for the Alfa Storica display at Arese".
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2005, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm721
Here's what Guidotti had to say about the P3."To us they were always Monoposto Gran Prix, only much later did the journalists start to call them P3".
Guidotti's recollection should be considered with the highest interest, of course, as he had witnessed great times and lived long enough, with clear memories, to tell many details.

However, on this specific statement, I can add for having personally checked that the 'P3' designation appeared on motorsport magazines as early as immediately after the first Tipo B victory at Monza in June 1932. Without going back to check right now, I would say it was on Auto Italiana, in the title about the race.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2005, 09:56 AM
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The P2 and Tipo A were 2 seat GP cars, so it is only natural that the Tipo B, as a single seater, was called a monoposto. I have also seen early refrences to the Tipo B called the P3, and it is only logical, as the P2 was the preceeding model GP car
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:02 AM
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This is an extrordinary dialog. So much information my eyes start to glaze over. I spent a bit of time looking at Rob Waltons' 6C3000 Zagato Spider at Pebble this summer and was impressed by all aspects of the car and presentation. I am left wondering why it would have been fifth or sixth in points in that class.
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:20 AM
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Part of the "problem" as far as Pebble Beach is concerned, is that this is not the original coachwork on the car, even though it is "proper" There is also "politics" involved at Pebble Beach and other concours, plus the political climate toward Walmart. I wasn't there, but all the people I know who were said the 6c2500 Competitizione coupe should have won the class.

I have been told that Walton's car was indeed blue and yellow at one time, but all the early period photos I have of the car show it a single color.
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