Woestman Special

[MALDI]

Interesting eBay item:

INDIANAPOLIS 500 1938 ALFA ROMEO 308 BRASS ID TAG NR - eBay (item 380129256462 end time Jun-12-09 09:09:03 PDT)

[tubut]

Since there were other posts about Alfa Romeos at Indy races, I believe the auction text deserves to be copied here (as it spells out all the details on the badge):

Quote:

A VERY RARE UNIQUE PIECE OF EARLY INDY 500 AND PIKES PEAK INTERNATIONAL HILL CLIMB RACING MEMORABILIA. THE ORIGINAL BRASS CAR TAG OR PLATE ISSUED BY THE AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION IN 1938 FOR THE "WOESTMAN SPECIAL". OWNED BY RACING WRITER AND ENTREPRENEUR, WALT WOESTMAN OF LOS ANGELES, CA. THE ALFA ROMEO TIPO 308 8 CYLINDER INLINE WAS ONE OF ONLY 4 BUILT THAT YEAR FOR THE 3 LITRE CLASS. THE RACER WAS FIRST DRIVEN BY BUS HAMMOND IN 1938, DESIGNATED #59 AT INDY AND RACED BY LOUIE WEBB IN 1939 AND FRED WINNAT IN 1940, BUT DID NOT QUALIFY. LATER OWNED AND DRIVEN BY HERB BRYERS AT PIKES PEAK IN 1949, 1950 AND 1952. IT WAS THEN PURCHASED BY P&J KLEIN-SCHMIDT AND RACED AGAIN IN 1953, ALSO RACED AT SPA-FRANCOR CHAMPS. (ALL INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON GOOGLE). THE METAL PLATE WAS OBTAINED FROM THE ESTATE OF A WOESTMAN HEIR AND IS OFFERED HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME AT NO RESERVE! MEASURES3" x 3.25" AT WIDEST POINTS. INSCRIPTION READS "1938-CAR NAME - 'WOESTMAN SPECIAL' - NAME OF OWNER - 'WALT WOESTMAN' - REGISTRATION NUMBER - '208'-PROGRAM NUMBER - '8'- CUBIC INCH DISPLACEMENT - '213' - WEIGHT - '1435' - SUPERCHARGED - 'NO'-CONTEST BOARD - 'AAA' LOGO AT BOTTOM". RED ENAMELED BACKGROUND IS BRIGHT AND WITHOUT FADE - LIGHT OVERALL WEAR, EXPECTED FOR AN ITEM OF THIS AGE AND USE. WE SUSPECT THAT THIS WAS REMOVED BY WOESTMAN WHEN HE SOLD THE AUTOMOBILE. A ONE-IN-A-LIFETIME CHANCE TO OWN AN EXCEPTIONAL PIECE OF RACING HISTORY!

[MALDI]

This must be the car. Does it look like an Alfa Tipo 308?

From the Pike's Peak International Hill Climb Archives:

http://www.ppihc.com/big/ppih0082.jpg

[Zagato_Olaf]

Hello members,

I thought it to be appropriate to picture a Tipo 308 to make a comparison with the Woestman Special. Photograph courtesy of Flickr.

Ciao, Olaf

[Zagato_Olaf]

And here is a picture of the same 'Hall of Fame' Tipo 308, according to the source circa 1950 at Pikes peak.

Ciao, Olaf

[tubut]

I looked at this tag again and cannot find any link between the "Woestman Special" and an Alfa 308 other than the claim of the eBay seller. In fact, I find some parts of the claim illogical: Why would Woestman modify an Alfa 308 that was "one of only four built that year" to the point that it would (or could) no longer be called an Alfa? I just can't get over having a hard time believing that somebody would buy a complete, brand-new race car just to take it apart -- or that the factory would have allowed such a thing during Mussolini's reign.

[Alfavaganza]

I agree. Also, displacement is apparently 213 cubic inches, which is 3490 cc. The 308 has 2991 cc. I'm a layman in this area, but 500 cc extra just like that, is that likely? Also, the 308 was supercharged, the Woestman special was not. Different engine? Suspension is completely different and where are the front brakes on the Woestman special? Different wheels, completely different body, which also makes it impossible to use some of the insides of the 308. In other words: we seem to be running out of 308 parts that could have been used on this car.

[Alfavaganza]

Subtitle of the auction: "ONE OF 4 BUILT WOESTMAN SPECIAL RACED 1938-1953"

It seems that this seller is thinking that a Woestman Special equals a 308
I've sent the seller a question about the connection between the Woestman Special and the 308... we'll see.

[ShadeTree]

I found the results for the 1953 Pikes Peak Championship. It shows a car driven by Charles Bryant was named "Walt Woestman" and was powered by an Alfa Romeo engine. I guess it's possible that it was a chassis and body of Woestman's design but running an Alfa Romeo engine. However, Herb Bryers never drove the car at Pikes Peak. In 1949 and 1950 he drove a McDowell, and in 1952 he drove a car named Weiher Alignment. Also, a Paul Kleinschmidt is shown driving his own chassis with a McDowell engine in the 1953 Pikes Peak and not the "Woestman".

As far as the Indy claims go, in 1938, car no. 59 (DNQ) was a Woestman chassis but was driven by Floyd Davis and was McDowell powered. (Look for Tazio Nuvolari on the list) In 1939 and 1940, the same McDowell powered Woestman was driven by Lou Webb and Fred Winnai respectively (all DNQ's). There's a lot that doesn't add up in the story but it appears there was a "Woestman Special" that may have been Alfa powered. It just wasn't the one associated with this tag.

[MALDI]

Sold for $162.49

Likely it is not Alfa related, but someone got a nice piece of history nonetheless.

[tubut]

Here's another picture of the car, titled "1938 pikes peak hillclimb - george hammond (woestman special) 2nd.jpg":

[6ccorsa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubut Here's another picture of the car, titled "1938 pikes peak hillclimb - george hammond (woestman special) 2nd.jpg":

[tubut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ccorsa This looks like a completely different car from the first photo of a Woestman Special posted above

[Cris]

There was a Woestman Special that was powered by a Tipo B motor but I do not believe it's either of the cars pictured. I have photos of it somewhere...will have to dig them out.

Cris

[iicarJohn]

I have not researched his earlier "Woestman" cars, but I have a note in my computer that there was a photo of two "Woestman Special" cars in Speed Age (magazine) for September, 1947. Neither of these cars were Alfa Romeo powered and any pre-war Woestman racer was also not Alfa powered.

I have researched the Woestman Alfa Romeo a bit and a friend, Gordon Barrett, has also shared what he learned when he went in search of the engine that he thought might still be waiting to be found. As it turned out, the engine had already been found, except ... there was more than one engine! Not only do I not know all the story, some of it is not mine to tell but I can share a bit of info and additional mystery.

The Alfa Romeo 8C powered "Woestman Special" was a tubular chassis car built by Harry Lewis in 1950 for Walt Woestman. Woestman apparently started to have some health problems during the construction and he offered the car for sale before it was completed. It did not sell and was finally finished during 1952. Still suffering from health issues in 1952, Woestman offered one of his earlier "Woestman" cars as well as this car with a "damaged engine" along with a spare engine that could have been had separately. Once again, the car did not sell and the Alfa-powered "Woestman Special" was raced a few times at Pikes Peak in the 1950's by Charlie Bryant (1952 & 1953), Jimmy Good (1954 & 1956) and George Hammond (1957). It used an engine that Woestman said was "the best of five engines" to have been offered from the Don Lee collection. As it turns out, the special may have used more than one engine.

Additional ads appeared early 1955 in both Road & Track and Car Life magazines but there is no mention of a second engine at this time. At least one engine was sold around 1958 to George Weaver who was the 1950's owner in fairly quick succession of two different Tipo B racing cars. N. 50004 was without engine when he got it and he fitted a Ford ... and then he purchased N. 50001 out of England, also without engine. It is not clear to me if he owned both cars for a while in an overlapping time period but maybe Simon Moore's new book (well-along but not quite completed) will tell us about that? It seems that Weaver may have acquired engine N 50004 from Woestman as this is the engine that was in 50001 when it was sold on ... and (as an aside) which was still in it when I got to do a good portion of the restoration in 1984 & 1985. The mechanicals were done by Reilly & Co. and major body work was by Jack Hagemann so I certainly did not do it all but it was a delightful car to spend a lot of time with.

Returning to earlier times: Note that the engine N. 50004 would have made Weaver's previous Tipo B "numbers matching" but it had already been sold on with the Ford engine fitted. Furthermore, almost nobody cared about "matching numbers". Most wouldn't even have noticed.

There were some parts with Barbara Weaver after George's death that clearly came from other cars, including the ID plate for the 8C2900 engine N. 412007, now returned to its original car thanks to Gordon Barrett's efforts. But, for much of this stuff that we can identify later on, we cannot be 100% sure of which pieces came from whom or where, so it is not possible to be too precise about what actually happened. It could be that Woestman had the engine N. 412007 at some point or it may be that he had only the ID plate or it may be that Weaver got that ID plate from elsewhere, with or without the engine or any part of one? Theories can be formulated that explain where both of Woestman's engines are today. There are some implications in the wording of Woestman's ads but again, we can't be absolutely sure of much of anything. In fact, I could have made an incorrect assumption early on, or may have chosen to believe someone else's assumption that was voiced as "fact" and the subsequent mind-set might make a lot of what I believe somewhat inaccurate. It would not be the first time, I'm afraid!

I don't have any photos handy in the computer but will make an effort to dig up a couple of things to scan for another posting on another day.

Despite all the other mystery remaining I am quite certain that the eBay item that started out this thread has a name-only link to the Alfa Romeo powered "Woestman" car. Perhaps more importantly, it was not a 308 or any other kind of true Alfa Romeo. Still, the Alfa-powered "Woestman Special" is a fascinating spin-off that is a great example of a lengthy historical "moment" that continues to present us with lots of mystery even when some background has been explained to some degree.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry