Pinin Farina 6C Pescara Coupé Aerodinamica

[iicarJohn]

Thanks "Laurent",

Looking a bit deeper into this I see now that I have a note that the magazine Rosso Ferrari #5 also had a photo of this car attributing the design to Mario Revelli de Beaumont and the original ownership to Theo Rossi. An Italian friend did some casual research on this car in the 1980's (or earlier?) and found the Bonetto name association existed as of 1936 (?) but we will have to do the research again to know more details and verify. It was an error for me to assume that Bonetto was the first owner, although he did have a hand in the creation of a few other interesting cars. There is a note that a new Milano plate was issued for the car in May of 1937. The Milano plate number dates originally from 1928 so it would have been a 1937 reissue and perhaps not the first or last for this particular plate? That is, if the notes are correct.

The 1937 Liege-Rome-Liege Rallye was held from 18-22 August. This creates a mystery about the accuracy of the claimed Milano plate issuance date as a plate on 700552 as of August 1937 should then have been the Milano plate rather than the Torino plate that shows clearly in the photo. So, once again, there is even more mystery in this than is obvious at a first glance. To have a chance at explaining this, more time and money will need to be spent. People used to tell me I was crazy spending time and money documenting cars that no longer exist. I'll probably do it again with this one ... when I get a chance. Some things want to be known ... even if some details are not terribly important in some ways.

John

[Alfavaganza]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurent Luigi Fusi, in his great book "Le Alfa Romeo di Vittorio Jano" mentions that this 6C2300 Pescara was built for conto di Theo Rossi di Montelera. Is Fusi wrong or is Felice Bonetto the second onwner of 700552? There is another picture of 700552 in Simon Moore's 8C2300 book on page 694. The car is seen while participating to the famous Liege-Rome-Liege race in 1937 (car #15). The colour is changed, now darker, may be red? The headlamps have been modified and no more behind the grills, probably for a better efficiency. I haven't been able to find the name of the driver and co-driver. Note that the famous parisian coachbuilder Figoni & Falaschi, built an exact copy of 700552 body for a Talbot Lago T150 SS chassis.

[fnqvmuch]

yes, more questions:
thank you laurent, but about the talbot - and i do agree F-et-F at least 'referenced' 700552 (as did others, imo ... but without all the same qualities that makes it's disappearance so sad )
was there really an exact copy as opposed to the well celebrated 'Teardrops' - (edited photo due to rights)?
and thanks again John, in pursuing your leads i noticed one mention of Mario Revelli as the count de Beaumont, is this correct?
so finally to the badge - maybe just a trick of the light that it is barely visible in all but that latest photo where it stands out on the different colour - could it be an aristocrat's coat of arms instead?

[Laurent]

The Talbot Lago T150 I was referring is the one in the attached picture.
Actually, F&F bodied 2 cars with the same design, both in 1938.
The only difference with the Alfa Romeo is the treatment of the front: external headlamps and a special F&F patented radiator cover.

But as you noticed F&F used the same front as 700552 with headlamps behind grills for another car: their famous “teardrop” coupe.

When you compare the dates, it is quite obvious that F&F copied Pinin Farina as 700552 was exhibited at the Milan motor show in 1935 and the Figoni teardrop cars are from 1937 and the Talbot coupe from 1938.
Giuseppe “Joseph” Figoni was very influenced by the Italian coachbuilders, he most probably came to the Milan show and definitely was very aware of the Italian design.

[tubut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iicarJohn Looking a bit deeper into this I see now that I have a note that the magazine Rosso Ferrari #5 also had a photo of this car attributing the design to Mario Revelli de Beaumont and the original ownership to Theo Rossi.

[iicarJohn]

Hi tubut,

Thanks for the added info. I have indexed only a portion of ARVJ (my shorthand for Le Alfa Romeo di Vittorio Jano) into my listings. Must do more!

In this case, "per conto di" means roughly "on behalf of".

I don't have it to hand at the moment, but there is a lovely drawing by Revelli (as I think he was referred to generally in his working period) that covers many cars displayed 1952 at the Salone Internazionale delle Automobili - Torino. There is a temptation to think that the large number of cars he drew were his designs but they were not. He was drawing in place of photographing. As a designer, he drew sometimes to gain a feel for line, just as Michelotti did. Normally, we do not get to see those "tests" or "practice sketches" but there have been some delightful exceptions and this is one that was published. I'll try to find it (only a photocopy I'm afraid) and share it another day. Based on this and some things learned about some Michelotti drawings that made it into the public realm (and of which I have just a few) it is clear that there are and were drawings by various designers that do not necessarily reflect their own designs but which give them a feel for lines that they might wish to use in the future.

Although I have not made a particular study of Revelli, I have several references to him in my computerized files. And, although I have seen the "Conte" reference in recent times, none of the primary references I recall made me think he was known by that title at the time of his prowess. But, the title can be honorific as much as inherited so we not know the significance, if any. Some implication might be inferred by the "de Beaumont"? I can probably learn some details if I make a bit of effort. All of this stuff takes time. Sometimes lots of time, particularly when you add the side trips caused by what is found on the way!

Revelli, like a number of designers, worked in cooperation with several coachbuilders. It seems that he sometimes worked for the client who also dictated the coachbuilder, so there was an association through the customer if for no other reason. And, some Italian coachbuilders (and outside designers) worked together more intimately than we might tend to assume today, based on our experiences with "intellectual property". There were some dominating forces that were also at play. Economics, Agnelli (Fiat), and personal friendships played a large part in what was done and by whom. Complex and interesting stuff, as most social studies are. Rarely do we get to know exactly what someone else was thinking (and how he was influenced) at any moment. And, by "he", I also mean "she", when appropriate.

Interesting stuff!

John de Boer

[tubut]

I did some more digging and found some interesting information on Mario Revelli de Beaumont:

According to the web page "Grugliasco celebra il designer Mario Revelli di Beaumont" (in Italian), there was an exhibition last year at the Museo Nicolis in Villafranca di Verona, where about 100 original drawings were shown. The web pages mentions that Mario Revelli de Beaumont lived from 1907 to 1985, was born in Rome and lived a large part of his life in the town of Grugliasco. This web page mentions the same exhibition and points out that the Fiat 1500 C Bertone from 1935 shows the same front design with center grille and lateral slots that became typical for Alfa Romeo (so much so that I initially mistook the picture of the Fiat for a 6C 2500).

Thanks to this web page with panoramic pictures of the abandoned Villa Maggiordomo in Grugliesco, I learned that the villa belongs to Count Revelli de Beaumont. A Commune di Grugliasco web page shows the villa from the outside and explains some of its history, but makes no reference to Revelli de Beaumont or establishes him as a Count.

This web page (dated Oct 17 but without a year) indicates that Grugliasco still has strong ties to the car industry and talks about entrepreneur Gianmario Rossignolo's plans to have 800 Pininfarina-designed luxury cars per year manufactured in Grugliasco.

[fnqvmuch]

this is fascinating! and thank-you all - just quickly:

Le topic des TALBOT d'avant 1960 - Anciennes Oldies - FORUM Anciennes - FORUM Automobiles mythiques et d'exc
'talbot 77' might be referring to this talbot as #90021 and I don't know if this is a chassis, body or archival number,
isn't it curious Fusi did not say Pourtout Bentley (the Embericos) but rather Van Vooren (which looks a little, er, compromised - to me - at least in the one photo seen)
and, according to a very recent AutoPuzzle, il conti would seem to have styled himself simply Mario Revelli ...
and again, thanks. steven

[Laurent]

"90021" is indeed the chassis number of this Talbot Lago T150.
The registration which is 8916-RL6, has been issued in Paris in July 1938.