Alfa Romeo Indy Pictures

[rkalinak]

Greetings:

Where can I view pictures of the Alfa 8C that was raced by Rex Mays at Indy 1937, 1938 and then afterward by various other drivers until approx 1948 / 1950. Any pictures or web links would be gratly appreciated.

All he Best,

Bob K

[tubut]

I'm not sure if your talking about this car which raced Indy in 1946-48 and is now in the Indy museum.

Can you tell us what you know about Rex Mays in 1937-38?

[John Brase]

Interesting. I was aware of the post war Indy Alfa but didn't know about the pre war Indy Alfas. Here's what my Indy 500 record books show. (I hope the formatting holds)

Driver..............Entrant/Car Name...........Chassis/Engine........#......S......F

1937

Rex Mays.........Bowes Seal Fast.............Alfa R./Alfa R..........14.....23.....33

1938

Rex Mays.........Alfa Romeo....................Alfa R./Alfa R...........8......3.......28

1939

Babe Stapp......Alfa Romeo....................Alfa R.-Weil/Alfa R....31.....16......5
Louis Tomei......Alfa Romeo....................Alfa R./Alfa R...........58.....30.....15

1940

Harry McQuinn...Hollywood Pay Day.........Alfa R.-Weil/Alfa R....41.....15.....11
Chet Miller........Alfa Romeo....................Alfa R./Alfa R...........34.....27.....17
Al Miller............Alfa Romeo....................Alfa R./Alfa R...........58.....30.....30

Apparently "Weil" was a chassis builder as there are Weil/Offy and Weil/Miller cars listed as well as the Alfa Romeo-Weil.

John

[rkalinak]

John & Ruedi:

Thank you for your replies, Ruedi concerning Rex Mays. Mays was a very successful and popular American driver from the 1930's until his death in 1949.
He was AAA National Champion in 1940 and 1941. Mays in 1937 participated in the Vanderbilt Cup, driving Alfa 8C-35/50012, Bowes Sealfast Special, at Roosevelt Raceway, Long island, NY. This was an attempt by one of the Vanderbilts to introduce Grand Prix style driving to the US. In 1936 the race was won by none other then Tazio Nuvolari in a Alfa Romeo 12C-36, in fact I believe the engine was only running on 11 cylinders. 1937, this is where Mays and Bill "Hollywood" White come in to the picture. The car apparently was a spare car brought over by the Scuderia and sold to White. "Bill White Race Cars/Bowes Seal Fast Special/Rex Mays/8C-35/50012" According to Brock Yates, White Wined and Dined Scuderia mechanic Attilio Marinoni who "Spilled the Beans" and gave White's Mechanics secrets on how to tune the Alfa Engine. Mays finished 3rd in the 1937 race only defeated by 1st Bernd Rosemeyer, Auto Union and 2nd Rudi Caracciola in a Mercedes. Nuvolari placed a distant 5th, Mays impressed the Scuderia so much that it is believed he was invited to Italy and a possible driving position, he declined, wonder how he would have made out 20 years before Phil Hill. Here is some more info on the Car:

The Bill White Alfa Romeo 8C-35, serial number purportedly 50012, was apparently an unraced spare car at the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup, subsequently purchased by Bill White and rebodied for Rex Mays to drive in 1937 (ret Indy, 3rd Vanderbilt) and 1938 (ret Indy), then Babe Stapp in 1939 (5th Indy), Harry McQuinn in 1940 (11th Indy) and 1941 (7th Indy, with relief by Kelly Petillo), Duke Nalon in 1941 (ret Milwaukee & Syracuse - yes, dirt tracks!), Jimmie Wilburn in 1946 (ret Indy), Cy Marshall in 1947 (8th Indy) and Art Scovell the same year (10th/ret? Milwaukee, ret Langhorne). This car was modified and rebodied to some extent over the years! I have also attached some photos I have of Mays and the Alfa. # 14 Single Seater is 1937 Vanderbilt and the other 2 are from the Indy 500. Also a Very Good website:

Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums


All the Best

Bob K

[tubut]

Thanks for the info, Bob!

The Rumbledrome web site is indeed very interesting. I found this picture with information about the 1938 car on the page dedicated to Rex Mays:

[iicarJohn]

This is a car with quite a history. The parts as well!

I got to work on the original engine a bit many years ago and collected a lot of notes after doing considerable research. Part of that research was catalyzed a bit when I met Bob and Vi Scovell. I think Bob had a Miller of some sort for a time. Some other stuff as well over the years. Vi had a Maserati with a Hudson engine that was campaigned up and down the west coast by a few different drivers. Bob was Art Scovell's brother. Unfortunately all are gone now. I wish I could remember all the stories! I'll try to find a photo I took of a photo of the car with Art Scovell at the wheel in Wisconsin.

The chassis is now with Alfa Romeo and has a 12C engine (N. 50103, also numbered "51205", and with Alfa Corse number 78, both of which have intersting implications of their own) fitted. This makes it still a "Tipo C", if the "50103" number is to be taken at face value, but the configuration is quite different from the 8C-35! The car is normally displayed at the museum at Arese. I read that it was displayed at Retromobile early this year for a time.

When I worked on the engine N. 50012, it had Offenhauser-made monoblocks that displaced 3.0 liters in place of the original 3.8 of the Alfa Romeo-made parts. One of the original Alfa Romeo 3.8 blocks (i.e. four cylinders with integral head, presumably from this engine) is in Indianapolis with a friend. This engine apparently has now been fitted with some new monoblocks "made in New Zealand" and is fitted to another Tipo C project that has a chassis of uncertain origins that has been reported at various times as either "8C' or "12C' in configuration when found.

The supercharger was traded many years ago from the USA to the UK in exchange for a rare Weber carburetor.

The shift tower assembly was sold or traded many years ago to another racing Alfa Romeo in England.

The transaxle is in another Tipo C project that is one of two that has claimed the chassis number "50014". This particular "50014" had scant claim to the number since was based on a chassis "made in Argentina" and fitted latterly in the UK with the engine N. 50015, also an engine that I got to touch rather intimately at one point long ago. The other "50014" had the engine 50014 and a lot of other appropriate stuff ... in another chassis that was also almost certainly "made in Argentina" but which seemed to have a few parts that might have come from the actual "50014". It is hard to say with certainty. However, the original chassis was damaged so badly in a fatal accident that it is not reasonable to presume that it survived afterwards. And it seems a bit odd that someone would have cut pieces off the damaged chassis when it would have been far simpler to make new parts.

Attached, a listing of the 50012's racing participations and ownership chain as I'd developed it as of perhaps ten years ago. I haven't worked in earnest on this listing for quite some time so I can't say that there isn't more that should already be listed from my files even though I do try to update major news when I come across it.

As with all listings that I share, updates and corrections are welcome. If the information is shared directly with me so that I have a means of responding directly to you, I am likely to share some more information that has been edited from this listing.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

iicarATearthlinkNET

[iicarJohn]

I should have mentioned that one needs only go to the Indianapolis Speedway museum and go upstairs to check into the photos that are available from their archives. You review, you order, you pay and they will send them to you. You don't even have to pay to go into the museum ... but why wouldn't you? It is very nice. Although a few errors can be found it seems much better than most automotive museums in that regard.

Regardless, there are a large number of photos, including those posted early in this thread by "rkalinak". I have some that I purchased but I don't consider them "mine" to share here. Prices seem quite reasonable until you realize that you want them all!

John