Trying to identify an Aviazione book 1938...

Zaagmans · #1 (**permalink**) 11-14-2008, 08:10 PM

Hi all,

being just new to this bb, I thought I'd post the question here.

I am very much into "waste paper", in a good sense that is...

I love collection old publications, especially on Zagato but this time I have something that I can't really identify...

A couple of years ago on a classic car market in Italy I walked by a Bertone GTV that was for sale and decided to take a look. On the front seat was an Alfa Romeo book... looking pretty old... defenitely pre-WW2... asked the owner of the car about it and if I could take a look... to make a long story short... after an undisclosed sum of money changed hands, I was the proud new owner of this book...

Once I got home I tucked it away and it is only a couple of months ago, since I moved house, that I "rediscovered" it and took al closer look.

It is a book issued by Alfa Romeo Aviazione in 1938... as that era dictated, it is very much layed out in a facist way... lotsa propaganda... but with a rather simple ring binding and onion skin cover sheet.

Still, it is a very nice book even if it is mostly comprised of reprinted newspaper clippings on the heroic feats of Alfa powered airplanes.

Apparently, the book was a limited edition of 500 pcs. only and this is number 305.

On the title page it is hand-signed but I can't make out the name... only that it appears to be a "Luigi Something".

Is there anybody here who can identify the signature and what the man's position was within Alfa Romeo?

The book was printed in 1938 by Rizzoli & C. in Milano.

Any help is appreciated!

Zaagmans

**tubut** · #2 (**permalink**) 11-15-2008, 12:02 AM

This is undoubtedly an interesting book that may render some insights on Alfa's aviation history, but I doubt its origin being in 1938. I have a hunch this is a reprint of some sort.

The main reason for my concern is that several of the pages (e.g. the Corrierre della Sera page, the Telegram page and the page with the photos and the high-lighted newspaer clipping) look like photographic reproductions of collages -- and that such reproductions in color were not possible in 1938 because of limitations in printing as well as in photographic technology.

Hopefully somebody more knowledgable than myself can shed light on this...

Zaagmans · #3 (**permalink**) 11-15-2008, 03:13 AM

I am open to all suggestions, including it being a reprint.

I should say that the "photos" are pretty crude. Next week or so, I'll see if I can scan a couple of pages.

Also, I believe that in post-war Italy, as in many other European countries, there was a ban on the (re)production of material that glorified nazism, fascism and / or the personalities involved with these (i.e. mainly Hitler and Mussolini). I am unsure if this ban is still in place but this piece is... uh... highly politically incorrect to say the least...

But then again.. Italy & rules... right...

I have a (faint) acquaintance who is a professional printer. I'll try to contact him and ask him if he deems this kind of production to have been possible in 1938. I don't expect him to authenticate it, just an opinion on if it would have been possible.

To be continued...

In the mean time, if anybody has any clues towards the signature or can tell me more about the book itself, you have my gratitude...

Freccia · #4 (**permalink**) 11-15-2008, 08:23 AM

I agree with Tubut that this is a very interesting book.... There is not much available about the aviation history of Alfa Romeo...
About the signature..... I can imagine that the owner of the book signed his copy... I do this already for many years....and I am sure that within 50 years people will have difficulties to read my signature.....
Any way...compliments with the book...
Probably the people from the Archivio Storico in Arese can help us...?!

Luc
www.frecciadoro.com

**tubut** · #5 (**permalink**) 11-15-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freccia

I can imagine that the owner of the book signed his copy...

Pat Braden · #6 (**permalink**) 11-16-2008, 10:06 AM

I responded to this post previously, but must have gotten diverted and never posted it.

Probably, the two most knowledgeable people on this book, reprint or not, would be dretcerterini, who participates on the bb and Don Black, retired engineer from Fiat and Alfa Romeo, who is into airplanes, but does not participate on the bb.

I have several Alfa Romeo publications, this is not one of them and I don't recall having seen it before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubut

Luc, I'm guessing you mean "author" not "owner." Owners marking their books used either a unique "Ex libris" logo and/or a clearly written name that identified them as owners but rarely a signature (school books may be an exception to this rule -- but this doesn't look like a school book to me).

BTW: The signature seems to end with "...anesi" or "...onesi" but what are the first 2-3 letters of the last name?

dretceterini · #7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2008, 12:59 PM

I do not recognize the signature, nor am I familiar with this book. Based on the spiral binding, I would think it is a reprint. A person that might know is Dave Mericle Jr. He got to know Elvira Ruocco pretty well before she retired as Director of the Alfa Archives , and Dave has copies of some Alfa publications I have never seen anywhere but in his collection, including a book (in Italian only, of course) covering Alfa's activities during the war..

**Zagato_Olaf** · #8 (**permalink**) 11-16-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaagmans

I am open to all suggestions, including it being a reprint.

I should say that the "photos" are pretty crude. Next week or so, I'll see if I can scan a couple of pages.

Also, I believe that in post-war Italy, as in many other European countries, there was a ban on the (re)production of material that glorified nazism, fascism and / or the personalities involved with these (i.e. mainly Hitler and Mussolini). I am unsure if this ban is still in place but this piece is... uh... highly politically incorrect to say the least...

But then again.. Italy & rules... right...

I have a (faint) acquaintance who is a professional printer. I'll try to contact him and ask him if he deems this kind of production to have been possible in 1938. I don't expect him to authenticate it, just an opinion on if it would have been possible.

To be continued...

In the mean time, if anybody has any clues towards the signature or can tell me more about the book itself, you have my gratitude...

**tubut** · #9 (**permalink**) 11-16-2008, 06:36 PM

The "Corriere della Sera" headline "Il primato mondiale di distanza battuto da Stoppani e Comani" (which kind of translates to "Distance world record set by Stoppani and Comani"). The telegram seems to be signed by Stoppani. This prompted me to do do some googling.

What I found was quite interesting. The December, 1937, world record flight of 7,013 kilometers from Cadiz, Spain to Caravellas, Brazil, is described (in Italian) on this web page.

The aircraft was a CRDA CANT Z.506 Airone (described on this page) with three Alfa Romeo 126 RC.34 engines (description here). According to this web page, Alfa Romeo showed a constant-speed propeller mechanism at the October, 1937, airshow in Milan that might have been used on this airplane.

With respect to the pilots, I found that Stoppani held almost 40 world records (some of them officially still stand today but probably are no longer relevant, see this page). According to this web page, the co-pilot Comani was involved with the design of the cockpit of the CANT Z.506 due to his instrument flight experience. Comani and three other members of the five member crew were killed on the return flight from Brazil (only Stoppani survived), when two of the three engines caught fire and the crew had to jump into open water after an emergency landing.

Concerning the book, I have a hunch that -- in case it doesn't have any marks that show its age -- this might possibly be a commemorative printing to celebrate either the 50th, 60th or 70th anniversary of Alfa Romeo's aircraft achievements. One of the things that caught my attention is the bottom-right corner of the cover page, where it says "Documentario 1937 A XV XVI" -- I'm not sure if the roman numerals refer to "Anni 15-16" (and if they do, year 15-16 of what?).

Pat Braden · #10 (**permalink**) 11-16-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubut

... One of the things that caught my attention is the bottom-right corner of the cover page, where it says "Documentario 1937 A XV XVI" -- I'm not sure if the roman numerals refer to "Anni 15-16" (and if they do, year 15-16 of what?). ...

Zaagmans · #11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2008, 02:32 AM

The Roman numerals indicate the year within the fascist era.

On October 28, 1922, the Italian fascists held their "March on Rome" which was more or less an attempted coup to seize power.

In the eyes of Mussolini this was the start of fascism and so the first fascist year lasted from October 28, 1922 to October 28, 1923 and was indicated by the Roman numeral I.

This was first used on December 25, 1926 and became mandatory on October 29, 1929, the first day of year VI of the fascist era.

It lasted through the reign of Mussolini and Italian Socialist Republic until that ended in April 1945.

Often the Gregorian / Christian date was combined with the fascist year following it (as in this book).

Consequently, the XV & XVI indicate 1922 + 15 & 1922 + 16 years = 1937 / 1938 (depending a little on the exact date caused by the October 28 cut-off date).

I once owned a book page signed by Tazio Novulari where he had dated his signature and had also included the Roman numerals.

The "feel" of the book seems to be correct for its age but that is of course just a feel, no fact and it seems so politically incorrect to me that it is hard to believe that it is a post-war reprint but as said, I am open to all suggestions.

**tubut** · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2008, 12:02 PM

The explanation of the "Mussolini calendar" makes sense and also explains why the roman numeral XV appears after the calendar year in the last picture above.

BTW, I'm leaning more and more towards believing that this book may be from the period. The pages shown really only require three print colors (black, light blue and red) which certainly was possible at the time.

Zaagmans · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2008, 01:11 PM

Decided to bother our friends at the Archivio Storico with it...

Basically asked the same questions as I asked here and sent the same photos.

Now the wait begins...

I'm very curious to see what they say about it... also asked them if they have it in their archives.

Will keep y'all posted.

Zaagmans · #14 (**permalink**) 11-17-2008, 01:29 PM

I forgot to ask... being somewhat handicapped in the field of the English language... how does one properly call the gold colored "thing" in this photo... a "bookmarker"? a "pagemarker"? Other?

TIA!

**tubut** · #15 (**permalink**) 11-17-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaagmans

I forgot to ask... being somewhat handicapped in the field of the English language... how does one properly call the gold colored "thing" in this photo... a "bookmarker"? a "pagemarker"? Other?