Did a dyno run today - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mound Dawg View Post
No it doesn't, keep reading and you'll see that it says "at engine rpm 575 (obscured)" so it's telling you what engine speed the maximum power was at not that the power figure is at the flywheel.

It may be that the dyno has done a calculation for transmission losses but that information isn't shown on the video so we can't conclude either way from the evidence here.
Ahhhhh, good point.

But I still stand by the interpretation that it's giving a flywheel number. There's no reason why any car manufacturer would understate there cars rated power unless there were tax or road regulations that get in the way.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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It's saying "at engine rpm", but I'll ask if it's doing drivetrain loss fudging the next time I talk to them. That would be a very inaccurate estimation due to all the variations in drivetrains.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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There's no reason why any car manufacturer would understate there cars rated power unless there were tax or road regulations that get in the way.
That is a factor in a lot of countries. It's why the Skyline stayed rated as "280hp" for almost 20 years
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 09:48 AM
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But I still stand by the interpretation that it's giving a flywheel number. There's no reason why any car manufacturer would understate there cars rated power unless there were tax or road regulations that get in the way.
In the USA, these numbers have been altered by the manufacturer for decades. In the 1970's muscle car era when horse power was king, some insurance companies simply refused to insure cars over a certain amount. So the car company listed a power value at a different RPM other than peak power. The values were real, so they didn't lie, the cars were now insurable, making them sellable.

As to measuring power at the wheel and calculating for what might be at the crank, it's still a guesstimate at best. Keep in mind that different machines will come up with different numbers for the same car, same conditions.

My father had his GTV track car dyno tuned one year. This was a fresh build, was given decent numbers. Raced it for a year, put fresh rings in it, went back to the same dyno. Same shop, same machine, same operator, same engine, very similar weather conditions. Suddenly the year old engine had almost 30 more HP.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 06:50 PM
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I can see it as maybe a diagnostic aid as in "why's it doing that" or quantifying modifications but for the purpose of either verifying or debunking published data, what's the point? I haven't bought a 4C yet, I don't know if I will or won't but honestly, for street use, I don't think I'd ever use up all there was and not have enough. That's just my view though.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 07:52 PM
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Driveline losses would be fairly small for this car as no driveshaft or 90 degree change of rotation direction ...
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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I can see it as maybe a diagnostic aid as in "why's it doing that" or quantifying modifications but for the purpose of either verifying or debunking published data, what's the point? I haven't bought a 4C yet, I don't know if I will or won't but honestly, for street use, I don't think I'd ever use up all there was and not have enough. That's just my view though.
I dyno'ed it mostly just for funsies, and also to have a baseline if I ever do any mods in the future.

Yeah, based on your reply I don't think a 4c is for you
I think it could be a good street car with taller profile tires, and the addition of carpets and headliner and more padding on the seats. That's not really what this car is for, tho...
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 11:28 PM
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I think it could be a good street car with taller profile tires, and the addition of carpets and headliner and more padding on the seats. That's not really what this car is for, tho...
I've put over 22,000 miles on my 4C. I've got the 18/19 inch low profile tires. She does just fine. Doesn't matter where we go. Around town, Interstate highways, dirt roads, twisty canyons, she's a great car with a great ride.

Seats are perfect. No need for more anything.

She weighs less than 2500 pounds. Doesn't need lots of power to move her. She has gobs of low end torque. Torque is what you need to move you off the line or out of the corners. Horse Power is for high speed top end. She'll do 160 mph and 0 to 60 in less than 4.5 seconds. That's enough power, enough quickness to get in trouble around town. I've had her up to 130 on the track (road corse). She's not a dragster, but I did smoke some rather impressive cars at the quarter mile, low 12's and 105.

My wife and I drove her to Seattle and back, 4000 miles in three weeks. Took all the backroads through the mountains.

You have no idea what you're missing.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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I've put over 22,000 miles on my 4C. I've got the 18/19 inch low profile tires. She does just fine. Doesn't matter where we go. Around town, Interstate highways, dirt roads, twisty canyons, she's a great car with a great ride.
You have to know we're not typical right? Most people aren't going to want to drive a car on a regular basis that is as focused on performance as the 4c is. I daily drove a lowered x1/9 for several years, so I like that sort of thing. Even then I don't really like low profile tires on my daily driver. I had put low profile tires on the car I traded in when I got the 4c, but it had evolved into a weekend toy by then.


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My wife and I drove her to Seattle and back, 4000 miles in three weeks. Took all the backroads through the mountains.

You have no idea what you're missing.
Backroads is where I like to drive. I did drive the 4c to work a couple times and it was a miserable experience. Too many pot holes, pedestrians, and traffic... The best place to drive the 4c is on a road course. Preferably one with short straits so that the big blocks can't get away from you, lol...

I bought my current x1/9 in Seattle and drove it all the way back to Texas. That was a blast, but I was also single then. I don't see any road trips in the 4c's future. No place for both the dog and the wife to sit. Now if it's just me and dog that's another story
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 05:02 PM
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...Yeah, based on your reply I don't think a 4c is for you ...
Oh I don't know, that's a rather large conclusion to come to based on a single reply/thought from me but I can understand your point. I actually think the 4C is a good fit for me and everyone who knows me to whom I have mentioned my interest in it has said "Go for it!" so they obviously think it fits me. The thing that's holding me back is I'm undecided whether I want a 4C or an old 308. That probably sounds absurd to many people but I like wrenching on things and there wouldn't be much wrenching to do on a new 4C. Still, it's tugging at me.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 08:48 AM
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The 308 holds a certain amount of lure, no secret there. My uneducated guess is maintenance costs will be murder. Not that it might be unreliable, but the cost to the same service job on the Ferrari will be greatly exaggerated as compared to the Alfa Romeo 4C.

I realize that I'm an anomaly when it comes to cars. I can't afford to own a car that I can't drive. There's desire, ability to afford (financially), practicality (as a daily driver), and justification.

I have the desire, I'm in a position to afford (financially), I'm used to driving race cars (on the track) and am willing to overlook certain aspects of the car, and I don't need to justify the 4C.

When I started getting serious about purchasing my 4C, I looked at other cars in the price range. Back then we didn't know what the price would be, so I guessed at $80,000 to 90,000 USD. I looked at plenty of performance minded cars in that price range. Porsche, Corvette, Jaguar, and so forth. I toyed with the options.

What I wanted in a car was, a true coupe that seats only two. Small and lightweight, 3,500 pounds is not lightweight, under 2500 pounds is. The essence of a race car that is street legal, not an armchair with a big engine. A Sports car, not a GT car.

That's really a hard order to fill in today's car market. The Miata fits, except I've driven my brother's and I wanted more power. All the cars I looked at are good cars, I'm sure of that, and I might have liked them. But I kept trying to justify them.

When I went back to the 4C, I wasn't justifying anything. It was the nameless car of my dreams. Besides, my dad is an old Alfa guy from way back when. I had driven his GTV enough to have an appreciation for Alfa and an understanding of what I might expect.

There are times where the 4C leaves something else to be desired. When I'm stuck in traffic listening to the idiot next to me yelling into his cell phone, for example. The radio is so terrible that I don't bother with it. But, that's an easy fix if I really wanted to change it. I've worked on enough Ferrari's and Lamborgini's to know that, "The higher the car's performance level, the crappier the radio." The Alfa Romeo 4C had a really crappy radio.

That's it. That's my biggest complaint. The 4C has a crappy radio. But then again, I didn't buy the car for the radio.

There's a fine line of compromise between being so track oriented that it's not streetable or so street oriented that it's just another boring car. Alfa did a good job at finding that invisible line. If the suspension was any stiffer it wouldn't be streetable, if it was any softer I'd be disappointed. The same with the exhaust note and everything else.

For me, it's just perfect. But, I realize that I'm not everybody. The 4C is not a car that everybody can appreciate.

My wife is not a car person. But she loves my 4C also. I think some of it is just being in, or being seen in, a car of this status. But when asked about the noise or the (expected) stiff ride, she smiles and says, "That's part of the experience." She has almost as much time in the passenger seat as I do behind the wheel.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 10:26 AM
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Yea I "get" the 4C, I know exactly what it is and what it isn't and like you I've been looking at other cars such as the Cayman, the Corvette and even the new Mustang, which is about half the price. But I'm also not really interested in a GT, a car that's bigger so that you can haul around a back seat that nobody can actually sit in. The 4C has its own personal element of perfection and Alfa deserves a high five for having the guts to build it. My interest in the 308 however goes way back, kind of a "bucket list" thing and this car, whether it be the 4C or a 308, will be as much a "hobby" as a mode of transportation. I'm not concerned with maintenance expenses either because nobody but me ever lays a hand on any of my cars or trucks. I'm perfectly capable of doing anything that needs to be done to it. So, as strange as it may sound, the "new car under warranty" aspect is kind of a turn-off for me. In the case of the 4C, not only is the technical information unavailable but I would most likely void my warranty if I were to lay a wrench on it.

Don't get me wrong though, having a new car with guarantees is, for the majority of people, a good thing. Another point is that I can own a 308 for a few years and get all of my money back at which time I could buy a used 4C with an expired warranty. Of course there is the very real possibility that 4C values might rocket out of sight. If you wanted a 246 Dino these days, for instance, you'd really need to have a quarter million dollars of spare cash laying around.

So you see I'm in a quandary, I really, really, really do like the 4C very much. I must think about it some more

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Racer Z View Post
I can't afford to own a car that I can't drive.
...am willing to overlook certain aspects of the car...
... a true coupe that seats only two.
...Small and lightweight
.. A Sports car, not a GT car...

... I didn't buy the car for the radio.

...There's a fine line of compromise between being so track oriented that it's not streetable or so street oriented that it's just another boring car.
Exactly.

Mike
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Oh I don't know, that's a rather large conclusion to come to based on a single reply/thought from me but I can understand your point.
Sorry for making assumptions. The 4c is one of those cars that is very special, but isn't for everyone. I wouldn't want anyone to have regrets on purchasing one.


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I can't afford to own a car that I can't drive.
I've always been a multi-vehicle guy. Even when all I could afford was an $800 pickup and a $500 x1/9. I like the variety and versatility.


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In the case of the 4C, not only is the technical information unavailable but I would most likely void my warranty if I were to lay a wrench on it.
You can buy the service manual is here: https://www.techauthority.com/en-us/...1-270-15020-CD

You won't void the warranty doing the work yourself, or having an independent mechanic do it. Dealership service departments are pretty poor in general. There are good ones out there, but our local FIAT/Alfa dealer is not one of them
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 10:25 PM
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That's good info Dan and not a bad price at all. I wouldn't have imagined that such a thing would be available but the 4C truly is a unique car. Another plus in the 4C column is that, unlike the hunt I will have to undertake for a 308 I could have a brand new 4C of absolute unquestioned condition tomorrow. All I have to do is sign the papers and drive it home.

But I'm a weird guy, I've been watching YouTube videos on how to sync a bank of four dual Webers and change timing belts on the 308 and it's the kind of stuff that's right up my alley. It feels like my satori, the Zen of Ferrari maintenance
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