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Alfa's In Trans Am

426K views 1K replies 112 participants last post by  kengta 
#1 · (Edited)
There are a lot of people here who have pictures of Alfa's racing in the Trans Am series. Let's post all the pictures we can find here on this thread. Here are just a few of what I have. I need to scan more.

Charlie Thieriot at unknown track 1971

Charlie Thieriot at unknown track 1971

Charlie Thieriot at unknown track 1971

Charlie Thieriot Laguna Seca pits 1971 (Host Kwech coming out of last corner)

Charlie Thieriot Laguna Seca paddock 1971 (BB member Rick Clemente with rain coat and gloves)
 
#496 · (Edited)
Just a few more. I'm only posting the decent slides (all of the pictures were taken with a Kodak Instamatic, hardly high-tech). I do have lots of the Kwech Wetson cars...

Edit: Location & date

Images from top:
VIR (Virginia International Raceway) Regional/National SCCA Race? Slide date March 1968
Mid Ohio Trans Am, Slide date Oct 1971
Mid Ohio Trans Am, No date on slide
 

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#497 · (Edited)
Just a few more. I'm only posting the decent slides (all of the pictures were taken with a Kodak Instamatic, hardly high-tech). I do have lots of the Kwech Wetson cars...

Hi George, Great pictures. The red, white and blue GTAs in the second picture may be team Andrey in a colour scheme I had not seen before,

Please confirm that the farther away GTA is #25 and that the crew is Oskar Feldman and Paul Glynn seen on the nearer right rear fender.

If the farther GTA is indeed # 25 then it will be GTA 752507 and a new livery to me. Other colour pictures I have of 752507 for 1969, 1970 and 1971 are red , white, red carrying bumpers in 1971. (Edit: maybe I don't have 1971 livery in colour just B/W)

What race and year could this have been? The orange Kweck? GTA/GTV? in the background is a clue and also carrying bumpers while not in the third picture.

Thanks, thanks, thanks

Ken

Thanks

Ken
 
#501 · (Edited)
I've asked a well know GTAisti (sp?) this summer just that question about #26 and his answer is that it is still unknown. (Is i singular or should it by GTAista?)

As to #4, I don't know but I bet Dr. Martinez would have more info on that chassis. As #3 is a GTAj chassis so could be #4.

FWIW

Ken

PS: I probably have posted info this else where but some time (years??) after this post Andrey crew Paul Glyn told me that the 1970 #4 orange was bought by Andrey or Everett from Kwech and became the 1971 #26 (teamed with #25) and was raced by Andrey, Everett and Peter Schuster in 1971. Photo evidence supports this. Glyn also said that #26 then became the BOBCOR yellow #26 for 1972 and was crashed at the Bryar Trans Am by Ed Rogers and parted out according to crew Richard Stephens and evidenced by yellow paint found on sliding block suspension parts likely bought from BOBCOR and mounted on a Canadian GTV Bulova racer.
 
#503 · (Edited)
I keep looking at these pictures. It's amazing how many cool pictures keep surfacing. I can't wait for the day for all these cars to be restored. Hopefully it won't be much longer...
I have this idea to do models of 752507 in all of it's various liveries, which with today's news from George is now: 1966, red with front markings,#42; 1969/1970,red-white-red, #25; 1971, red-white-blue, #25 and 1972, BOBCOR yellow, #25; but not necessarily the minor variants such as early and late 1972 or the race dictated use of other numbers.

The biggest problem to do this in 1/43 scale is to get a conversion kit to RHD for the available LHD models.

752507 itself will go to early 1972 livery, BOBCOR yellow.

ciao

Ken
 
#505 ·
Car #26

I believe the one crew name, Paul Glynn, owned and operated a great Alfa shop in Rowley, Mass. He knows Alfas VERY well, but the business has closed, and Paul has moved on to new things.
 
#508 ·
Trans Am cars

Hi All,
Ken, it's interesting that you are considering models of all the paint schemes. I had a similar thought, although a series of photos in one large frame may be a simpler solution.
Regarding Paul Glynn. He is back in operation as far as I know. He worked for Paul Russell's restoration firm for a year or so and has now gone back into his own shop. He would probably enjoy seeing these pictures. By the way, he owns an unrestored GTA of some sort. I don't know anything about it's history.
KG
 
#510 · (Edited)

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#511 · (Edited)
GTA at Riverside

Here is a pic of a RHD GTA #12 presumed at Riverside in 1968 or 1969 taken from the 1969 Riverside Trans Am event poster, also shown. If any one is really interested in better versions of these I can retake the pics in an attempt to improve the quality. Of course this picture may well have been taken the year before or at regional or national Sedan race.

Who's driving? Whats the S/N, where is she now?

Ciao

Ken
 

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#513 ·
I'm making a wild assumption here but if this is in fact the poster for the 1969 event, is it not reasonable to assume that the poster was done/printed etc well before the race to advertize the race and thus is a photo from 1968? that being said, "Trans Am - the Pony Car Wars 1966 - 1972", Dave friedman, lists only 2 Alfas for the 1968 Riverside Trans Am - both GTA's, driven by Provenzano, which finished 5th overall and 1st in under 2 ltrs., and by Taylor, 10th overall and 3rd in under 2 ltrs. a quick skim did not rveal any photos that would help.

frankly I don't know whether this helps or hurts/further confuses, but...

FYI I was an SCCA and RCA (Race Communications Association at Watkins Glen) flagger from 1967 to about mid- 1975 and flagged Trans Ams at Lime Rock, the Bridge (Bridgehampton) and The Glen - generally the neatest racing I ever saw and have promised myself that if I ever get the time, to go back through my slides and negatives...

a stroll down memory lane - I was flagging at the outpost at the top of the hill at Lime Rock. think about 3 trans Am cars trying to get up the hill at Lime Rock side-by-side. Tony Adomowitz (in the middle) thought better of it and "asked" Parnelli Jones to move to driver's left and partially up the dirt berm to make room. Who'd have thunk that Parnelli would be so obliging? although I understand that they chatted about this, in a most gentlemanly way of course, at the end of the race.
 
#514 ·
The greenery in the poster suggest that the photo was NOT Riverside... even after a wet winter nothing related to grass ever sprouted at RIR. But, Willow Springs often has a green spring bloom.
I think the poster was from a far away venue...
 
#524 ·
What year are you referring to when you state "Kwech got 2 cars with no chassis number that year"? The 2 Kwech/Theodoracopulos PepsiWetson cars raced in 1972 were LHD GTV's (not GTA's) and had lower number brass tags. Kwech got them from Alfa before 1972 and you are correct about "no chassis number". In 1972, one was given brass tag "72BS05" which is on the car I own. I have seen pictures of its brass tag taken when I have run it at Coronado or Monterey posted on a website, possibly this one. If my memory is correct they were consecutive numbers, and I believe the other 1972 Pepsi Wetson GTV was "72BS04", but was not "72BS15". This car is no longer painted with the 1972 Pepsi livery. (I see another reply seems to indicate "72BS06" is on a different car) Hope that helps to clarify.
 
#525 · (Edited)
Hello Rad, welcome to this BB and thanks for sharing your info.

If you are referring to the Quote of Weberoni I posted in Post #515, then Weber was refering to an RHD GTA without serial number that he states was one of 2 built by Kweck that was first raced in 1968 by Kweck then sold to Harry T. Harry T used it for various purposes.

I don't exactly know what was meant by "built by Kweck" but we wonder where ARI would have gotten a RHD chassis to sell to Kwech in 1967/68 long after their production had ended, for him to build from. ARI would have access to LHD GTA or GTAj chassis to sell to Kweck.

So I wonder whether the RHD GTA that has no S/N and carries brass tag 75BS 15 which BTW has been converted from LHD to RHD is that same GTA that Kweck built for 1968 premiering it at the Daytona T/A 1968.

Or did he convert both GTAs that Weber refers from LHD to RHD

The history of GTA with 72BS15 is thought to be known from 1975 to present and we are speculating backward from there.

Only a few RHD GTAs were still racing T/A in 1972 so the driver of GTA 72BS15, one might speculate was Ed Wachs. Charlie Theriot and Bert Everett also drove RHD GTAs in 1972 but those 2 RHD GTA's are known.

Regards

Ken
 
#526 ·
Wach's GTA

Hi All,
This is a photo of Ed Wach's in his RHD GTA at Kent, Wa. where he won in 68. It appears to be similar to the orange car on the Riverside program and most likely the same car as the 72 photos in the previous posting. If Ed was running his orange car in 68, it probably can't be the green car. Ed kept his car at Kwech's, then Ron Neal's for many years, I was told. I'll try to talk to Ernie{Harry T's guy} tomorrow.
Keith
 

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#528 · (Edited)
Hi All,
This is a photo of Ed Wach's in his RHD GTA at Kent, Wa. where he won in 68. It appears to be similar to the orange car on the Riverside program and most likely the same car as the 72 photos in the previous posting. If Ed was running his orange car in 68, it probably can't be the green car. Ed kept his car at Kwech's, then Ron Neal's for many years, I was told. I'll try to talk to Ernie{Harry T's guy} tomorrow.
Keith
What is that on Ed's helmet? A kangaroo

Keith, nice hole you put in my musings. But thanks all the same as we unravel history. MAybe its the other 68 Kweck built GTA? Maybe?? Maybe?? maybe?? We need to find out who converter the tagged GTA 72BS15?? And when??

Ciao

Ken
 
#527 ·
Ed Wachs again,

Hi All again,
I started reviewing this thread from the very beginning and noticed an early mention of the #68 Green Mt Tremblant car with the possibility of Ed Wachs driving it. I spoke to he and Kwech a few years ago at Elkhart Lake when they were first running the new Atlantic cars. He mentioned wrecking a green car at Mt Tremblant that belonged to Martino, who had something to do with the McDonald's ownership. Perhaps that green LHD #68 was destroyed that weekend, or at least badly wrecked. Any other photos of it out there??
KG
 
#529 ·
Ed Wachs GTA

Hi
Yes, it's a Kangaroo. I asked him if it was Kwech's helmet and he said that he had a Kangaroo logoed helmet also. I'll have to find out when Kwech built Ed Wach's car versus when he built the Green Sebring car and possibly the Green Mt Tremblant car, if that's actually a Kwech built car. Maybe we need to get good photos of all three cars and present the case to Kwech himself. He has pretty good recollections, but occasionally mixes up the year that a particular car was run.
Keith
 
#530 ·
Hi again,
Who actually has the mystery car, now? Roman says that he saw it with Murphy, at one time. Can someone crawl over the car looking for more clues? Is there anything left of the serial# area. If it's been ground off, as opposed to never been there at all, there might be enough left to read something. Acid etching? Forensic police lab?? I know, I've been watching too many cop shows!!
Keith
 
#534 · (Edited)
This is the ex-Bobcor car that was run in its later life in GT3 by Dick (Richard) and Jim Brown in the Pacific Northwest. It never had a chassis # even way back - to neither Jim Brown or Dick Barwell could ever find one on the car when they owned it. Blair Gehman at the Chassis TunersThe Chassis Tuners: Suspension Specialists Inc. told me he used to do the suspension set-up on the car when Richard Barwell was running it. He may have some info on it.
 
#535 ·
Hi Alle,

I think I touched on this before but with no feed back from you, so again can you please say why you consider this to be an ex-BOBCOR car.

Thanks

Ken
 
#537 · (Edited)
I believe this was related to me by either Dick Burwell or Jim Brown - also the car used to be painted BOBCOR yellow when it was campaigned in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe Blair G. can confirm this bit of the story.
Hi, well if so (a BOBCOR GTA) which one was it?

I have the RHD GTA #25 BOBCOR driven by Bert Everett and Bernie Martinez has the #52 LHD Ex- Ken Schley (GTAj Chassis) which was also driven by Wayne "Bing" Scherer for a few of the early races as Schley was not available to drive his car.

One Ed Rogers of East Aurora, NY (very close to BOBCOR Buffalo, NY) shows up at the first 1972 race at Lime Rock on #26 GTA, yellow, entered by BOBCOR and finishes 8th, Everett was also there on #25 finishing 4th to the 1,2, 3 of the Datsuns. The entry list put #25 as 1965 GTA and #26 at 1967 GTA for what that is worth although correct for #25.

In the next race at Bryar there are 3 BOBCOR entries, Everett, Sherer and Rogers finishing 4,5 and 15 respectively. Rogers was out in an accident at lap 36 of 70 and not running at finish. Did that accident end the year for Rogers and that GTA??

I find no further mention of Rogers on GTA in the 1972 results after Bryar. Of course he could have entered then DNS. I also recall no pictures of this GTA.

As far as I know 72BS15 was reported as RHD and for sale at BOBCOR in 1975 along side #25 GTA 752507 when John Demaria bought 752507 and brought 752507 to Toronto. Demaria reported that 752507 was the Everett car and that the other GTA was later sold to a Mr. Ramon Bergamann(sp) of Quebec who painted it red and raced it in Quebec regionals. Other pictorial evidence confirms 752507 as the #25 BOBCOR GTA.

72BS15 then went to the Vancouver area and I have recollection of an advert for a race GTA in ARCC Alfista about the time. Presumably it went to Barwell. At some point either in Quebec or British Columbia it gained a CASC ID #757.

I understand that after Barwell it went to Jim Brown and partner Dave Sablan of the USA pacific NW and I have 2 pictures of it from September 1983, INIEZIONE Northwest Alfa Club news letter carrying #59 GT4 markings and plastic fenders and appears white or a light color with side arrow and reported as GTAj.

Next I hear John Murphy has it in 1991 and yellow I think and that Bob Cozza has pronounced it the #25 car, for what that is worth as he also pronounced 752507 the #25 GTA. Murphy got it from broker Tim Ritter about 1986 and reported it had 1300 dry sump. It was Murphy who reported the CASC number. Murphy had 2 pictures with JIM Brown 1983 written on them. He reported to me that the car pictured in INIENZIONE and the one he had were one and the same. He did not report the SCCA 1972 Trans Am Brass tag 72BS15 and I consider that significant.

Then it goes to Hadfield about 2001 from the Murphy estate and is now red. Looks like it still has plastic fenders from Anthony's pictures.

Roman Tucker reported to me that the Murphy GTA was converted to RHD from LHD and bore no serial number and Anthony R has confirmed this with pictures and believes it to be a true LHD GTA chassis.

Questions-
who converted it to RHD from LHD and when; so pictures from LIME rock or Bryar of the Roger #26 GTA would be of interest.

Who and when were the plastic fenders put on.

When was it painted red and was any auto archeology done on the prior paint schemes.

If it turns out to be the #26 Rogers/BOBCOR car then:

where did Rogers/BOBCOR get it.

Is it the LHD #26 GTA that Gus Andrey drove in 1971, remember Rogers was on #26 at 1972 Lime Rock but was it RHD or LHD?

IF RHD, again, who and when was the conversion to RHD done.

Did Bert Everett own it, as he is reported to have bought 2 GTAs from Andrey in 1970 just before the 1970 Mid Ohio that he then won on #25.

Was Everett the owner of both #25 and the #26 Andrey car in 1971.

Where did Andrey get the #26 1971 LHD GTA? (Andrey bought 752507 after the 1966 T/A series from Baker and Heijn in 1966 or 1967.)

AND why did WEBERONI (Jim Weber??) say that the RHD Harry T GTA was with John Murphy or did Murphy have more than one RHD GTA.

AND where is the Harry T RHD GTA.

AND, where is the ED Wachs 1972 (and maybe other years) RHD GTA????

AND please if I have something wrong here let me Know.

Yours in T/A GTAs

Ken

Edit: Uploaded the attached pictures from Iniezione refered to in text.
 

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#538 ·
Just to correct my typo above: Burwell should read BARWELL

Also curious whether the car has a 2-bolt or 4-bolt crossmember? When I knew the car it was always referred to as a GTA junior - it had a 1300 at the time - so this may not be surprising, regardless what the chassis was.
 
#540 ·
From sources like Alfabb and emails John Murphy owned a number of TZs in the 1990s (*750036/750070/750083*?) and also a number of GTA/GTAJ:

the one without VIN, *613633* (ex Ammen/Clouser?/Schosser?/Bicht), and GTAJ *775511*, now with Judge Parker.

This photo is said to be Ed Rogers at Lime Rock 1972:

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Regularity rally Classic car


Btw Ken Schley, not Scheley
 
#541 ·
From sources like Alfabb and emails John Murphy owned a number of TZs in the 1990s (*750036/750070/750083*?) and also a number of GTA/GTAJ:

the one without VIN, *613633* (ex Ammen/Clouser?/Schosser?/Bicht), and GTAJ *775511*, now with Judge Parker.

This photo is said to be Ed Rogers at Lime Rock 1972:

View attachment 123623

Btw Ken Schley, not Scheley
Thanks Martin, I have this pic somewhere.

So can we say this is a LHD GTA. No right side mirror, driver not right at the window? Opinions???

Could this be the #26 1971 Andrey GTA?? Or could this be the Schley GTA wearing #26 and Rogers had a different GTA for Bryar?

Ciao

Ken
 

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#542 ·
Ex Murphy cars-

I have in the shop a GTA that used to belong to him- 613-553. It was purchased from him by either Said Marouf (who we got the car from) or Neil Hadfield. Neil has a RHD car (don't know the chassis #) that he also got from Murphy that he claims? is an ex-Bobcor car. Paul Spruell may know some things? as he was helping Murphy for some time -I think. Fred.
 
#543 ·
GTA pictures from Inienzione Sept 1983

I have just uploaded pictures of the Ex -Jim Brown GTA/ GTAj from Inienzione Sept 1983 into my post #536 this thread.

Ciao

Ken
 
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