alfa 1900 102 oilpump - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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alfa 1900 102 oilpump

Hi All,

I am searching for a new or used in good condition

oilpump for alfa 1900CSS ,102 seri


rgds Franco
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
Hi All,

I am searching for a new or used in good condition

oilpump for alfa 1900CSS ,102 seri


rgds Franco
Hi Franco,

I see that Tom Zat has a 102 Oil Pump listed on eBay for $350

Alfa Romeo 1900 2000 Oil Pump | eBay

Mark
I tried to PM you but it did not work...
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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picture bearing

Hi all,


I did a complete rebuilt of my 102 spider engine,

The only thing I did not was to rebuilt the oilpump it was looking good inside , but it was fitted bythe rebuilder with a to thick 0,5mm gasket that we got with the complete gasket set.

So after running in with mostly stationair RPM ( 700-1000 ) adjusting the carbs and ignition the engine was beginning to make a strange metal sound .

So after dismanteling this new rebuilt engine we saw that on piston rod bearing was complete distructed

I was thinking that the low oilpressure 0,5 bar and the running in oil sae 30 and the thick gasket leaking oil besides the worms in oilpump caused this problem.

After rebuilt we used another used (good looking ) oilpump on it and the oilpressure was still low at idling about 0,5-0,6 bar .
So I am searching for a better pump, and a set of worm wheels I ordered by AFRA but if the inside aluhousing cast is worn that will not be the solution.

someone told me that an oilpump from 2300 RIO gives more volume oil and yes I checked an oilpump from a rio engine and yes the wormwheels are about 25% bigger

So the next step is to mount the oilpump from 2300 RIO and see if this gives more then 0,5 bar

I am also thinking to make a modified 102 oilpump with bigger worms

rgds Franco
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Last edited by franco-veloce; 09-02-2016 at 04:45 PM.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 03:02 PM
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Franco,

At idle, with warm oil, there is very little oil pressure registered on the gauge. I believe it is OK to have as little as 7psi, which is approximately .5 bar. That is with the oil hot. With cold oil, it should read above half-way on the gauge.

I do not believe the 2300 oil pump will fit the 2000, for at least two reasons, maybe more.

The 2300 oil pump shaft is longer, and has the driven gear screwed directly onto the end. The 2000 pump shaft has a key that fits into a groove in the cross shaft mounted in the front main bearing cover. In my opinion it is a poor design compared to the original 2000. Additionally, there is a different shape to the pump body and upper portion. I doubt the pump could be mounted at all.

If your pressure was very low when cold, I would suspect the pressure release valve in the oil filter assembly. If it becomes stuck, or has even a tiny thing lodged under the sealing face, it will dramatically reduce both the idle and running oil pressure. Of course, it is also possible that your rebuilder left out the pressure valve body entirely.

I have always found it necessary to thoroughly prime the 2000 engine with oil prior to starting. A recently rebuilt 2000 engine will tend to not self-prime.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Don and All,

Yes the original 102 pump with the "bronze cover " is a better design then the 2300 rio pump.

Yes I prime the 2000 engine with oil prior to starting

Yes fitting the 2300 pump I need to change the shaft

Yes the pressure release valve in the oil filter assembly is oke and I put a shim behind the spring to make oil pressure higher but this gives only result at higher rpm and not on idle....


rgds Fanco
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Hi All,

today I found an very good used 1900CSS oilpump and mounted it on the 102 engine

It gives now about 0,8 - 0,9 bar pressure at idle with hot oil and 5-6 bar with high rpm

I am also thinking to built in an oil pressure valve in the oilfilter canister or in the oilpump so the oil will not left the oil channels in the engine to the sump and then with starting there will be always oil in the oil channels .


rgds Franco
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 07:46 AM
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I NEVER use less than 20/50

Franco:
Forgive me for commenting on your 30 weight oil on break-in. Even then I NEVER use anything other than 20/50. I am not the best engine rebuilder in the world, and do not claim to be. I once had one last only 500 miles before I burned out the journal on rod number 4. I discovered then that I must carefully clean all the galleys in the crank itself to make sure the oil got through it too. Perhaps your bad journal was on rod number 4? Since then I have always carefully cleaned the galleys in the crank and used allen set screws instead to hoping the aluminum plugs would not fly out.

But I also worked for a long time to make an oil filter adopter arrangement that used a spin on filter. My problem then was that the pressure from the pump went through the filter before the relief spring and unless I carefully pre-fillled the filter the pressure would collapse the insides and destroy the filter. I still use one but all I have provided others I have warned. I now worry how many have passed those cars on (I've had twelve two liters) with giving the new owners that warning.

However, I am happy to tell you about the person who solved this problem, one who built a relief into his adapter so that one did not have to live or die with the single spring relief arrangement provided by Alfa originally.

Myron Cottrell MAKES SPIN ON FILTER hpfarm@aol.com
4255 Creek Rd c(612) 868-6596
Chaska, MN 55318 (952) 448-5330

You should contact him. The following photos show the type for 1900 and then the 2600 engines. He also makes one with the "slant" out from the block needed by 102 series two liter engines.


Howevereter.the pin on adgwsiur baThe two liter engine is just too 30

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 07:53 AM
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I NEVER use less than 20/50

Franco:
Forgive me for commenting on your 30 weight oil on break-in. Even then I NEVER use anything other than 20/50. I am not the best engine rebuilder in the world, and do not claim to be. I once had one last only 500 miles before I burned out the journal on rod number 4. I discovered then that I must carefully clean all the galleys in the crank itself to make sure the oil got through it too. Perhaps your bad journal was on rod number 4? Since then I have always carefully cleaned the galleys in the crank and used allen set screws instead to hoping the aluminum plugs would not fly out.

But I also worked for a long time to make an oil filter adopter arrangement that used a spin on filter. My problem then was that the pressure from the pump went through the filter before the relief spring and unless I carefully pre-fillled the filter the pressure would collapse the insides and destroy the filter. I still use one but all I have provided others I have warned. I now worry how many have passed those cars on (I've had twelve two liters) with giving the new owners that warning.

However, I am happy to tell you about the person who solved this problem, one who built a relief into his adapter so that one did not have to live or die with the single spring relief arrangement provided by Alfa originally.

Myron Cottrell MAKES SPIN ON FILTER hpfarm@aol.com
4255 Creek Rd c(612) 868-6596
Chaska, MN 55318 (952) 448-5330

You should contact him. The following photos show the type for 1900 and then the 2600 engines. He also makes one with the "slant" out from the block needed by 102 series two liter engines.
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[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I can modify the axle of the 2300 rio oilpump so it will fit on the 102 engine

This 2300 rio oilpump has bigger wormwheels inside the alucast housing and gives about 30% more oil volume.

rgds Franco

Last edited by franco-veloce; 09-01-2016 at 03:32 PM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I modified the axle of an alfa 2300 rio oilpump

this pump gives 30 to 40% more oil

this pump fits 102 and 1900 engines


rgds Franco
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 10:18 AM
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Hi Franco.
It's the best and more simple to use a Rio modified pump.
You must be look after oil galley in crank and block as said Jay.
The filter choice is important: I should change textile filter by a paper one because I use Motul 300V LE MANS oil (20W60).
now I have no problem.

Rgds Yves
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Jay and All

I am going to make an adaptor plate for the original alucast oilfilter cast housing

so mounted on the original alucast oilfilter cast housing todays oilfilters with oil valve will fit on it.

rgds Franco

Last edited by franco-veloce; 09-26-2016 at 03:46 PM.
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