Thinking of adding a 2000 Spider to the stable

[hdavis]

I've been offered a 2000 Spider and am thinking of giving the 2600 spider some company. The car is in mid restoration, but seems to be all there. The engine is apart as is the interior. Bodywork has been done to a very good standard and it has been painted, all documented, no rust is left. Suspension and brakes are back on the car. The engine is supposedly ready for reassembly. Has hard top. It comes with another parts car in sorry state.

What do you think something like this could be worth? (see pictures please)

[Alfajay]

Boy, something like this is very hard to price. Clearly the current owner has spent a bundle on paint & body and chrome. If he had the suspension work done professionally, that could have cost a few bucks as well.

The issue is that a partially completed car is worth a LOT less than a finished one. There is still a lot of time and money required to complete the drivetrain, upholstery, wiring, and the myriad of bits that need to be sourced/installed/connected/adjusted to turn a pile of parts into a running, reliable car.

I am guessing that the seller said "make me an offer", and you're wondering where to start. I suppose that two datapoints would be the $ spent to date, and the market value for 2 liters given by "Sports Car Market News". I'll bet that these two numbers aren't far apart - that is, that the current owner is already "underwater". Some fraction of that figure - say 1/2 - might be one place to begin the negotiations.

[102-04 Brasile]

WOW....
Should you give up on it, there is a bunch of us dreaming of a car like that....

[hdavis]

Thanks, the current owner is clearly under water and he knows it. He also needs to get rid of the car fairly soon, he's loosing his storage space and needs the $ to finish a Veloce project (I think it can be seen in the background in one of the photos).

He didn't ask for an offer, he pointed out an amount he wanted for the car and I'm trying to figure out if it's reasonable.

Motorbase lists the range from 3 to 14,000 pounds
SCM between $12 and $15 thounsand

But both of these numbers are way behind current market, there is one in ebay germany for 45 thousand Euros (I guess it never hurts to ask).

Anyway, the asking price is in the lower range of the Motorbase number, single digit thousands.

[102-04 Brasile]

I will tell you my opinion. It is very personnal. The car that is for sale at 45 KEuros is worth that amount. But noboby will pay for it. I have seen these cars, in very good condition, go for 35 K DOLLARS.
Based on the pictures you posted, without having seen the car personnaly, I would easily go to 10 KDOLLARS. There is a shell car (200 Touring) for sale in Europe (no engine, complete rust, no lights no top...) There are bids for 3 KEuros if I am correct (E-bay).
You´ve got a deal. Go for it. Good luck, we love you for that deal. These cars deserve people who love and drive them...

[Bill S]

Heck, you could recoup 1/3 of your purchase price by selling the danged hardtop.

[Alfajay]

I'm gonna say two contradictory things, so stick with me here:

- Partially completed cars generally sell at a deep discount. I don't have a grudge against the current owner, but the guy is in a difficult bargaining position. No auction or consignment house is going to accept a partially completed car, there is a smaller population of buyers who will take on a project, and he has time constraints. Bargain accordingly.

- If you really want the car, then what you pay is somewhat irrelevant. The $ that changes hands between you and its current owner is just your down payment. With engine, interior, and whatever else still ahead, the real price is where you are at the completion of the project. And again, if you are going to be keeping the car for some time, plus/minus a few thousand will become minor in the grand scheme of things.

I hope I haven't confused matters!

[Peter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis Anyway, the asking price is in the lower range of the Motorbase number, single digit thousands.

[Touringspider]

I believe that the SCM price guide has been updated this year and has prices for the 2000 that are more in line with the current market. I don't have mine in front of me at the moment, but I recall that the percentage increase was significant, and the value of a good #2 car was in the mid to high $20k USD. I have seen 2000's sell for up to $44k USD, with most of the good ones in the high $20's to low $30's.

From the photos, it appears that everything has been nicely done so far. My own project is at what appears to be about the same state, and even with doing a lot of stuff myself I don't even want to think what my cash outlay has been so far. Rebuilding the engine can be an expensive proposition just in parts alone. I finally managed to source a complete set of engine bearings from OKP after a long wait, and those were over $700!!!! I agree that about 50% of the price of a completed car is probably about right in this case given that there is still a lot left to do.

That being said, there are risks in buying someone else's incomplete project (AMHIK...). I bought mine in very rough shape, but partially dismantled, and it has been a challenge to find all of the correct little brackets and widgets that the PO casually lost or mislabled etc. However, if you want a project this looks like a better one than most of the rust buckets we normally see.

What is that color, by the way? It doesn't appear to be anything that was originally offered on one of these cars. It is strangely appealing.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
1961 2000 Spider

[hdavis]

Thanks Arno, the color is red, the pictures I posted are poor pictures. I have been thinking long about this and I'm going to pass. The asking price is $9,000 in case anyone is interested. I'll be glad to PM the owners information to anyone that so requests it.

Couple more picture to try and show correct color

Henry

[Steve O]

The pictures seem to show good quality work being done so far. As long as all of the major parts are there (e.g., I presume the doors are stashed somewhere and come with the car, etc.) the price seems reasonable. I bought a '59 from a barn in Utah where it had sat with the engine disassembled for 29 years, and had about $10k in it by the time it looked like this. I chose not to mess with the old cast iron engine and instead converted to a late model motronic twinspark two liter. I love the result, and would encourage whoever snaps this one up to do the same (unless the original engine is really ready for reassembly, with all parts sourced and machine work complete.)
One thing that puzzles me is the absence of the faux vents usually found behind the front wheels...and is it just my interpretation of the photos, or does the rear trunk have the higher 2600 contour? What model year is this car?
Cool project for someone (besides me)!

[tubut]

I don't know 102 cars all that well, but 3 things caught my attention:

1. The hard top seems to be a 106 hardtop, not a 102 (note the mismatch in the curvature of the bottom of the hardtop and the car's body -- the gap below the rear windshield cannot be missed).

2. The tires seem to be new but look too small. The profile is neither Michelin or Pirelli. What tires are they and what size?

3. Were there 102 cars made that didn't have any louvres on the side of the front fenders (i.e. Europe vs. USA models)?

[Touringspider]

As far as I know, the louvers/gills were present on all 102 Spiders. Even the photos of the prototypes I have seen (which often have significant differences from the production cars like a strip speedo) have the louvers.

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I recall while doing the bodywork on my car that the louvers are actually a separate piece that is welded to the rest of the fender. It could be that this was once a seriously rusty car, and instead of trying to replicate the louvers they just cut them out and welded in a plain patch panel or did a cut and shut with part of a 2600 fender.

Also, the fenderwells should not be painted body color but should instead have a textured black undercoat finish.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
1961 2000 Spider

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubut I don't know 102 cars all that well, but 3 things caught my attention: 1. The hard top seems to be a 106 hardtop, not a 102 (note the mismatch in the curvature of the bottom of the hardtop and the car's body -- the gap below the rear windshield cannot be missed). 2. The tires seem to be new but look too small. The profile is neither Michelin or Pirelli. What tires are they and what size? 3. Were there 102 cars made that didn't have any louvres on the side of the front fenders (i.e. Europe vs. USA models)?

[technobob]

I believe the hardtop is originali. Compare to the attached period photo from Bruno Alfieri's Carrozzeria Italiano.