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post #106 of 182 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Hello !

As I want this car to be in a perfect condition I have scheduled to change almost all the screw, nuts and washers.

When I have disassemble the car I have measured all the screw, nuts and washers. I have stored all the data into an xls files and then I have order all the elements.

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"Bid" screw are black, "small" one and nuts / washers are stainless steel.

Yesterday I receive the 98 references representing 765 items = 10,8 kg :

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Xls file is available for everyone, but I have to translate into english.

Last edited by PS70; 09-29-2016 at 11:03 AM.
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post #107 of 182 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 12:58 PM
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Serge, I looked through your spreadsheet quickly, and would like to comment as follows:

For my 2600 Spider, I just did quite a bit of research into the fasteners attaching the upper and lower A-arms and for attaching the plate that holds the front suspension springs to the lower A-arms. This was triggered by the fact that the threads on several of these bolts were stripped to the point of being dangerous (and an Alfa technical bulletin advising the need for mandatory field upgrades as described below). I could not find any exact replacements for the Alfa parts because of:

(a) the dimensions (e.g. M8x1x42mm for the upper A-arm and M10x1x42mm for the lower A-arm) are not standard length and therefore not readily available (45 mm seems to be the closest standard size),

(b) the bolts are not marked with modern strength classification (i.e. no standard-compliant class or grade marking),

(c) none of the suspension fasteners are listed in the Alfa parts interchange list for standardized parts, and

(d) for the 2600, there was a technical bulletin advising repair shops that the nuts and bolts of the upper A-Arms need to be upgraded to higher strength -- for which they provided only an Alfa parts number. I'm not sure if this TSB applies to 102 cars as well (chances are that the larger 2600 engine and higher speed of 106 cars created much higher lateral forces on the front suspension, which led to bolt stretching Alfa described). Given that the front suspensions of 1900, 2000, and 2600 cars are almost identical, I think it might be a good idea to upgrade the fasteners for the upper A-arms on all of these models.

The closest (and probably safest) components I could get for my front suspension was Class 12.9 hardware (bolts, nuts, washers), but such hardware is not available with 1 mm "extra fine" thread pattern (specifically, no M8x1 or M10x1 Class 12.9 bolts or nuts -- the highest grade for such hardware was 10.9). Class 12.9 seem to be only available in standard thread (1.25 mm for M8 and 1.5 mm for M10) because of the higher pressure and torque values. I ended up buying Class 12.9 with standard thread. I surmise (but I'm not sure) that the difference between standard thread, fine thread and extra fine thread is a trade-off between shear strength (fine-threaded bolts seem to have a thicker cores and therefore higher shear strength than standard threaded bolts) and the axial stretching forces and torque that can be applied to the threads (standard threads can withstand higher forces because they have more contact surface area).

Sourcing Palnuts was an adventure in itself (there is one manufacturer in Italy that makes Palnuts for extra fine threads -- the supply situation for standard thread is much better). For the spring plate, I chose not to use the split lock washer under the nut, as shown in the parts catalog, but to torque it dry to Class 12.9 specs and use a Palnut instead for securing the nut from turning loose.

Like you, I had to buy boxes or bags of 100 pieces each -- even though I needed only 8 for my car. When I'm sure I'm done (I installed the front suspension this weekend and need to double check), I will make my surplus fasteners available to other owners.

With respect to your spreadsheet, including the Alfa Romeo parts numbers for the components (and maybe even what table they came from) would allow much better identification and comparison with what solutions are available.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 09-29-2016 at 01:09 PM.
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post #108 of 182 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Ruedi,

Thank you for your answer.

I'm not sure my English level allow me to understand everything perfectly. But I assume I catch main ideas.

For the fixation of the A arm I have bought 12.9 class with a length of 40 (instead of 42 mm) and with 1mm "extra fine" thread pattern, diameter 8 and 10. I assume the 2 mm missing won't be an issue, but I may be wrong.
For the spring, 55 length with 1mm "extra fine" thread pattern, diameter 10. Conform to original.

You are right, for the nuts there is not classification. If you find classified nuts I'll be happy to know where or to buy you some parts.

I any case, I have consider that a new screw class 12.9 and a moderne new nut is much more beefier (strong) than a 55 years old screw and nuts that have been screwed and unscrewed several time and partly affected by corrosion.

I need some time, but I'll mention all AR parts number in front of each component.
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post #109 of 182 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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As we are discussing about screw, anyone could give me the size of the screw that secure the 2600 front caliper ?
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post #110 of 182 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 06:14 PM
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Serge, I could only find class 10.9 nuts for M8 and M10 extra fine threads. A general notion of engineering safety seems to be that the nut should be equal or higher grade (stronger) than the bolt (never lower class), as failures of the bolts (stretching, bending, breaking) and bolt threads (stripping) are easier to detect than failures of the nuts (cracking, stripped threads). This safety precaution was the main reason why I chose to go with standard threads on class 12.9 bolts and nuts rather than a combination of class 12.9 bolts with class 10.9 nuts.

As for the front caliper bolts, I'm pretty sure they are shoulder bolts (shaft thicker than actual thread) -- but I'll need to check next time I'm in the garage.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #111 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-01-2016, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you Ruedi for your answer and clarification. If you have 8 and 10 nuts available I would be interested.

Regarding the caliper the diameter seams to be 11 mm in 1.25. Hard to find ...

Yesterday I receive the new bumper.

The rear one is adapted to the width of the car.

The quality is irreproachable :

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Serge
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post #112 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hello !

In order to improve the behavior in time and guidance, I plan to machine polyurethane silent bloc for the rear wheels.

Superpro is selling 30 cm bars that can be machined.

http://www.superpro.com.au/

Someone has experience in this area?

Serge.
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post #113 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 02:41 PM
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Serge

These silent bloc units may be availble form Superflex or similar I have a pair but no idea where they came from. They look the same as these at a silly price from Mr Fiat

Alfa Romeo 2000 2600 Polyurethane Trailing Arm Bushing Kit - 2000 2600 Spider - Alfa Romeo - Italian Cars

While having my car repaired at a long term alfa specialist in London . I asked how best to improve the track of the rear axle.

I was advised as follows

1. Don' fit two polyurethane bushes, this will make the suspension too sharp . Fit one poly and one std rubber.

2. Add a turnbuckle in each rear tie bar so the rear axle can be aligned the same as the tracking adjustment on the front wheels. Apparently the rear axle on the 2000/2600 was bolted in but never aligned.

good luck

Ian
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post #114 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 02:49 PM
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post #115 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PS70 View Post
As we are discussing about screw, anyone could give me the size of the screw that secure the 2600 front caliper ?
Serge, here are the dimensions from one of my bolts. I was not able to confirm the M12 x 1.5 mm fine thread as I have no thread gauge for measuring this specific thread -- so I suggest you first check this dimension in the axle hub with a threaded bolt of that dimension.

If you cannot find a shoulder bolt that fits (which probably will be difficult with the mixed imperial/metric dimensions), you may need to get a partially threaded 1/2 inch hex cap screw, reduce the diameter for the thread and cut it t length on a lathe, then thread it yourself.


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-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 10-03-2016 at 11:38 PM.
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post #116 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-06-2016, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much,

Sorry for my late answer, I was on business trip.

Ian, perfect !

Ruedi, thank you very much.
The thread seams to be M11x1.25.
The quality of the female thread is very bad (lot of corrosion). I propose to machine it to M12X1.25.
Other thing, the hole on the caliper is diameter 11mm. It is not and Alfa caliper, it is a Jaguar ...

So I'll buy a screw of 45 of length 12X1.25 and I will also machine the caliper to 12.

Hope it is clear...
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post #117 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-06-2016, 03:07 PM
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I confirmed the thread is M12 x 1.5 mm (not 1.25 mm). Volvo 1800 with single circuit brakes were very similar to Alfa. You may want to check if caliper mounting bolt #668905 (see this page) fits. Check also the caliper lock tab #669012 in case you don't have it.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #118 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-07-2016, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Ruedi,

Thank you for these information.

I don't know if I have different caliper older than you but believe me, I tried to screw a M12x150, that do no fit ... Too big.

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post #119 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Hi,

I receive the Dynamo discover by Don.
I dismount it completely and it is perfect.
But ... There is somme difference with the model I have.

The pulley, the tending system.
Which is the good one ?

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post #120 of 182 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 06:27 AM
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The one on the left looks more like mine. However, there may have been more than one version. Does it fit?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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