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post #76 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 08:35 AM
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By the way, the "floating tappet" is unique to the 102, and perhaps the 1900. I do not know where to obtain new ones, but have read of a couple of companies that might fabricate them to order. They would not need to be changed to accommodate 9mm stems. You would replace them as a function of their condition, or if you were to install new or different cam shafts.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #77 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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OK Don, good !

The floating tappet are available at OKP (Retro Rosso for the french market).

Today I open the gear box to see how it is inside (I had a lot of trouble with the 2600 gear box) :

Very dirty but everything looks good (all the teeth are here).

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Concerning the 2nd : The wolf teeth (I don't know what is the english name, I'm talking about the small teeth in front of the speed gear) look a little bit damaged. That could be the sign that the synchronizing ring is a little bit worm.

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How can I know that the synchronizing ring should be change ?

Serge
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post #78 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 07:19 PM
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That looks very new, or at least fresh. I'm not really a gearbox guy, but most of the synchros I've seen used up showed little to no grooves on one or both sides.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
 
post #79 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 12:35 AM
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Serge those little "wolf" teeth should be slightly pointed with a slight angle on the top, they look 'tres bon' in your picture, similarly the grooved syncro ring also looks 'tres bon'

Those are the early syncro rings and will require the correct Dentax oil (huile) without the EP additives of modern oils.

The trick is to remove the 2nd gear synchroniser ring and swap it with 5th gear after turning 5th around as only 1 side ever works on the 5th gear synchroniser ring, also do the 1st gear fix, which makes a difference when selecting 1st from stop. --> First Gear Fix

Salut
Greig
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post #80 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you to both of you for your answer !

Greig,
The trick to use the 5th gear synchroniser ring to replace the 2nd one is very clever !
But to access to the 2nd gear ring, you must disassemble the ball bearing on the right. To do so, you are obliged to push with a press on the axe while fixing the external cage of the ball bearing. The effort goes through the ball and might damage them no ?

The ball bearings of this gear box look all good. I still have to wash and degrease them to be sure, but they seams OK.
So, if my second gear synchroniser ring don't need to be change I prefer to leave it and not take the risk to damage the ball bearing.

Do you thing I can leave such synchroniser ring ?

I read your link regarding the first gear : amazing => Thank you. I will check that on an old 2600 gear box and probably use its parts to upgrade the 2000 gear box.

Thanks a lot.

Serge
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post #81 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 01:44 AM
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The bearings are not that tight on the shaft &I have never damaged one pulling them off, also my pullers are for bearings and shaped like [( )] to go around the shafts and support the bearing as much as possible.

I also heat the gears with a hand held propane torch to expand them and they either come off or go on really easily when warm & expanded

Salut
Greig
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post #82 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Greig,

Than you. I have the [()] tool you mention.

So from your point of view, the 2nd synchroniser ring should be changed.
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post #83 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-23-2016, 09:12 PM
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Hi Serge

It depends on what the syncro ring looks like, the dog teeth (wolf teeth) are also very important to the syncro action.

It may be that your gearbox was rebuilt already, it would be better to have someone who knows these boxes check it out for you in person.

** the new Goetze syncro rings sold by Classic Alfa etc are for the newer type synchromesh (EP oil containing Molybdenum) & the parts are NOT interchangeable with the older type (Dentax or NON-EP oil) that you have here **

Salut
Greig
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post #84 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-24-2016, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Greig,

Thank you for your answer.

I will follow your advice and show the parts to several friends I have here in France. Pictures are sometime misleading ...
Anyway, I think I will change the synchro ring. It is not so much work and I can't imagine I discover any problem with the gear box when I will have renewed everything and start the engine.
Concerning the Goetze syncro rings, I have been told that you can use them in our 102 & 106 gear box if you change also the Stop & Locating segments and the stop strip by type 105 parts.

Yesterday I have open the steering box:

Bad news

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I will order the new parts to CHS in Brazil

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Serge
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post #85 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-24-2016, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PS70 View Post
Concerning the Goetze syncro rings, I have been told that you can use them in our 102 & 106 gear box if you change also the Stop & Locating segments and the stop strip by type 105 parts.
Serge,

When the molybdenum synchro rings were introduced, Alfa published a technical document listing all the parts that needed to be changed to allow an early 105 gearbox to use the moly rings, for 'metallurgical reasons'. BB member Papajam posted a scan of this a few years ago. The list is more extensive than just the segments and band.

I also discovered in the Competition Reference Handbook that early dog rings are 6.6mm deep, moly type are 7mm. That might be the most critical difference of all. See here for more.

Alex.

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post #86 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-24-2016, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PS70 View Post
I will order the new parts to CHS in Brazil
FYI, you probably mean CHS is in Argentina (see here), not Brazil.
It would be great to learn if they now have kits for 2600 steering boxes (which I believe were upgraded from 2000 steering boxes as discussed in separate threads).

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 08-24-2016 at 11:04 AM.
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post #87 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-26-2016, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Your are right Ruedi. I don't know why I was thinking CHS was a Brazilian company.

The advantage of this kit is that the gear worm is installed on its shaft. This installation is very very hard to do ...

The kit is also much more complete than the one send buy usual europen suppliers.

As soon as I will receive it I will inform you about its quality.
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post #88 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-26-2016, 11:17 AM
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I've got three steering boxes sitting on my bench for years awaiting overhaul. I've got some good looking gear sets, but would like to try one or more of these new ones. As I've noted before, I've got at least three, and I think four, different gear-set configurations. I do not know if the gear sets can be interchanged into every box, but I am certain that some gears will fit some shafts, but not other shafts. Removing and replacing the gear onto the shaft is not really difficult with a hydraulic press. The picture of the kit above makes it appear necessary to at least install the gear onto the input shaft.

I'm still wishing someone would advise the process for driving out the pin for the sector gear. How is it held in place? I'd rather hear from experience before I start experimenting. Also, which part number kit should we use? There are several variations I've seen discussed, but no clear summary.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #89 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-26-2016, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The picture of the kit above makes it appear necessary to at least install the gear onto the input shaft.
Here is the picture corresponding to the kit I will order :

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post #90 of 234 (permalink) Old 08-26-2016, 01:01 PM
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Rather than taking Serge's thread too deep into a particular topic, may I suggest that we continue the discussion about steering box particulars in this steering box thread, where Ian posted some info he received from CHS here and Don pointed out some differences and suggested we should compile a list of "box numbers"here?

Also, I hope we can get Jay to chime in there with his knowledge and experience of dis- and re-assembling what must be dozens of steering boxes.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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