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post #166 of 209 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
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2 questions :

I'm looking for a picture of the trunk closure system:

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I'm also looking for a picture of the system that maintained the battery in order to see where are located the 2 holes for hanging the rods.

Have a nice day,

Serge
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post #167 of 209 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 08:20 AM
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Boot Latch

Here is a photo of mine.
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"If everything seems under control, you are not going fast enough" - Mario Andretti
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post #168 of 209 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much Roger.

This part is definitively missing. If anyone have it ...
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post #169 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Hi everybody,

Some news.

The body work is finalised.

Name:  IMG_4698 copie.jpg
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The car is now at the painting office.

Concerning the engine, I have decided to use a 2300 Rio bloc and to install on it the 2000 cylinder head :

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Don, could you give me the Weber configuration you have ?

Serge
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post #170 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 02:12 PM
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Serge,

PM your private email address. I can send you the whole formula.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #171 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:28 PM
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Hi Serge,


FYI diameter RIO is 88mm and 2000 cilinderhead 85mm

both have different headgaskets

I have a cylinderhead from 2300 RIO if you are interested


rgds Franco
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post #172 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:17 PM
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Franco,

Have you compared the combustion chamber shapes and lower diameter between the 2000 and 2300?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #173 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:54 PM
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Serge,

Before I send along the "formula", a couple of comments and questions.

The 2000 cylinder head can be an advantage over the FNM as it has the larger valve tappets, whereas the FNM has the same tappets as in the 105 engines. This will allow you more options of cams than if you use the FNM head. What behavior do you want from your engine? All-around improved performance, or would you like more horsepower up high even if it means a slight loss at the lower RPMs?

Do you intend to use the original intake manifold, or the "Conrero" unit from OKP?

Do you intend to use 40mm or 45mm Webers?

If you are using the OKP manifold, do you have an interest in the custom-designed manifold that looks like the original, but which will work with the OKP manifold?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #174 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Franco, thank you for your proposition, but the combustion chamber between an 2000 and a 2300 are exactly the same.

Don, to answer your question :
I would rather a "all-around improved performance".
I don't care to have a 40 or a 45 mm Webers, I'll take the more appropriate.
I intend to use the original intake manifold that I will modify (I have 2 of them).

Don, did you also modify your camshaft ?

Have a nice day.
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post #175 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:32 AM
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Serge,

As the 2300 has the capacity to flow more air, I decided to use a pair of 45DCOE9s that I have owned since new in the 70's. This has allowed me a wider range of choices for the venturi size, the better to optimize the performance characteristics. I also used the OKP manifold, as it is less of a compromise than modifying the original manifold. If you just look down the bores of the original manifold, you will see all sorts of curves and obstructions that will be left behind after you de-siamese them. These will reduce your airflow below optimum at best, and at worst create different airflow behaviors between cylinders. The small difference in cost between modifying the original and getting a manifold intended for Webers is smaller, in my opinion, than the performance penalty that you will suffer.

Yes, I used two cams specified by Richard Jemmison. It was during this process that I learned about the difference between the large 102 tappets and the smaller FNM tappets. If you wish, you would have a wider range of cam options than I had. However, I am entirely happy with the cam profiles that I am using. You can find my dyno charts elsewhere, showing a marked improvement in the torque curve over the stock cams using 40DCOM carbs. There is slightly more torque at lower RPM and a bunch more torque all the way to redline. Truly a remarkable transformation. As part of the change, I went from 33mm venturis in the 40DCOM carbs to 35mm in the 45DCOE. At some point I may experiment with 36 or 37mm venturis, or even 38, and changing the cam timing slightly. I'm in no hurry on that project, as the performance is excellent as-is. Very drivable around town, but exciting when opened up.

Meanwhile, we are very near the end in fabricating a production of intake plenums that copy the appearance of the original, but which will attach directly to Weber carburetors fitted to the OKP manifold. This plenum will then connect to the original air cleaner assembly, leaving a very nearly original appearance. I expect that a small, reversible modification to the bottom of the air cleaner housing will need to be made to accommodate the increased airflow. Mark S has already made this change with happy results.

If you copy my configuration, then my jetting for the carbs will probably work for you. If you use the original manifold and/or stock cams, my jetting might help, but I predict you'll have to make changes. Frankly, jetting is probably the simplest part of this process.

To use the 45mm carbs, I had to "port" the OKP manifold to match the carbs. This was surprisingly easy, although it made a bit of a mess in my shop. I was completely satisfied with the smoothness of transition and flange-matching that I got. I spent a little time matching the interface between the manifold and cylinder head, but not as much as I might have done. Given the scope of work this entails, it probably makes sense to have your 102 head done by a professional shop that can clean up some of the airflow restrictions, and perhaps help with matching the intake ports to the manifold. As 102 heads are harder to find than OKP manifolds, I decided to leave this work alone. However, I do have a spare 102 head that I may tackle some day toward a few more foot-pounds of torque.

So - a proven "formula" is good to copy, so long as you copy all of the pieces. Once you start changing things, you are conducting your own experiment.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #176 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Hello Don,

Thank you very much for your detailled answer.
Your detailled Weber configuration and cams profile will be usefull for me not to use it as it is. But to confirm that I'm going into the right direction.
I'll study carrefully the 2000 intake manifold to see what I can do with it, but frankly (for economical reason), if I can use the today manifold and the plenums I will do so. I have 1 plenium, and 2 manifold, let's use those parts.

I have tried to find your cams profile on your thread, but there is a lot to read and my poor English level don't help.

Concerning the esthetical aspect, I think will try to follow what you have done on your 3rd engine :
Bloc in satin black,
Aluminium head cylindrer natural,
Cam cower wrinkled black,
Oil pump and chain tensioner aluminium,
Oil filler wrinkled black,
Water elbow wrinkled black,
Plenums wrinkled black,
Oil pan aluminium.

This configuration is not the original one, but should look nice : What do you think ?

Have a nice day.

Serge
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post #177 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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I put side by side 3 photos (block 2300, cylinder head gasket of 2300 and cylinder head of 2000).

Name:  Capture.jpg
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Some holes on the cylinder head are missing on the seal.
Can you confirm that these holes allow the coolant to pass through?
What do you think, I drill the joint?
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post #178 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:05 AM
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Cosmetics are a bit subjective, I think.

The main difference in my choices against the original is to leave the cylinder head in natural aluminum. When done in all-black, the entire engine bay becomes black and unremarkable. It brightens up the whole experience to have something shiny.

Before you make your final decision on the pieces to use, add up the costs. Note that 102 rubber isolators are very expensive, and no longer fit correctly. This will result in premature failure and costly replacements. Modification of the 102 manifold is not free.

The 102 manifold is 44mm. You will need to expand the inlet end to match 45mm carbs, or accept a mismatch to 40mm carbs. Not a big deal, but not ideal. The solex manifold is heated, which is necessary for PHH operation, but not for DCOE operation with straight intake runners. The heated manifold will reduce power slightly.

At some point I will find the cam numbers. You can order them through Richard or direct to Webcam. Either way, you'll need to send them your old cams to be modified. As the base circle will be slightly reduced, you'll need many additional shims. Fortunately, these can be fabricated to order.

The base circle of my cams had to be dramatically reduced to work with the 105 tappets. With your larger 102 tappets, you can use a larger base circle and wider lobe than I did. You'll need to work with either Richard or Webcam to get this right. Richard is probably better equipped to do it, but I'm not sure he's actually ever done this combination.

You should have new 102 tappets made as well. Richard can perhaps guide you on where to have this done.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #179 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:12 AM
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That is not a correct 2300 head gasket.

The correct head gasket has its forward edge of the main sealing area protruding outward rather than inward. The gasket you show will result in a very thin strip sealing the water jacket from blowing into the timing chain cabinet.

The holes you are concerned about are not a problem. They connect the water jacket in the block to the one in the head. The 2300 gasket has other holes on the sides to transmit the water. You can see that there are matching holes in the head to accept the water.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #180 of 209 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Don,
Thank you for your quick answer.

I'm not worry about the inward form on the gasket.
You can see bellow that it is also the case with the original 2000 gasket and the remaining area is big enough to assure a good sealing :

Name:  Capture.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  16.0 KB
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