2600 Sprint Steering box - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #61 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-01-2015, 05:16 PM
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Hi All,


does someone know what OD pin dia ( 0,442 or 0,472 ) was used on 2000 2600 ?


rgds Franco
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post #62 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-01-2015, 05:29 PM
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Hi All,

I am searching for the seals


do someone have a source and or dimensions ( dia inside /outside ) ?

rgds Franco
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post #63 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-01-2015, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
Hi All,


does someone know what OD pin dia ( 0,442 or 0,472 ) was used on 2000 2600 ?


rgds Franco
Paul mentioned in post #51 above that his pin diameter was 0.442.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #64 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-01-2015, 09:17 PM
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I have not yet tried driving out the sector pin. Anything unusual to watch out for? Do they need to be drilled out and replaced with new?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #65 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-05-2015, 04:12 PM
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Hi All,


I got mail from CHS in Argentina who makes the "gemmer" steering box parts

,Yes, Mac's Antique Auto Parts (from NY, USA) has been buying our
products for 25 years.

As regards to the worms that you received from USA Mac's Antique Auto Parts (from NY, USA) for the Alfa Romeo
cars (for 1900 > ford 1936 LHD 17:1 & for 2000/2600 > ford 1936 RHD
17:1 ), they are not suitable for your apllications due to the fact
they have different parameters of thread or spiral (like thread pitch,
primitive circle, etc.)


rgds franco
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post #66 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-05-2015, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
not suitable for your apllications due to the fact
they have different parameters of thread or spiral (like thread pitch,
primitive circle, etc.)
Thanks for checking with them and sharing the reply, Franco! If I were CHS, I'd probably say that, too (for reasons of liability, plausible deniability, etc.).

When I did some superficial research into Gemmer a few weeks ago, I was actually surprised how few variations there seem to be with respect to worm and roller sizes -- so, it seems they are grouped in certain size categories (where the worm and roller size defines the load bearing capabilities) but members of the same group or category probably would have about the same geometry (i.e. similar parameters). Non-ideal parameters may lead to excessive wear and tear of worm and roller, but I cannot foresee how non-ideal parameters could lead to catastrophic failure of the steering box (total loss of steering by the steering box locking up or the axle of the pullman arm coming loose).

Finding a matching worm and roller that fits into our Alfa enclosures may be a "last resort" solution that saves a lot of money (OKP currently sells their 2000/2600 kits for EUR 915.13 or about USD 1,020 before taxes, see here). There's no guarantee that these kits will work better or live longer than adapted Ford kits or components from Mac's.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #67 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 12:43 AM
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Worm types

Maybe all parties are right?

What we do know is on of these worms has been succesfully fitted into a right hand drive box on a 2600 sprint. The RHD drive cars only had one type of box and worm number 106.07.23.002.01/27. So the RHD part is correct.

Don has noted a number of times that there are various versions of the LHD box. The manual shows two worm options 102 serial number 102.00.23.002.00/27 and 102.00.23.002.02/27 . So the LHD part as CHS's note may not be correct


Franco have you asked CHS directly if they can supply the correct parts for the 1900/2000/2600 cars ? This would seem to be the logical solution.

Has any body built a LHD box with the CHS parts yet?
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post #68 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 03:35 PM
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steeringbox alfa 1900 2000 2600 GEMMER worm wheel

Hi All,

I received the worms from MAC USA
for 2000/2600

ford 1936 RHD ( 17:1 ) and can see that they are not exact the same as the originals.

I mount the worm in my spare steeringbox and cannot adjust the roller to the worm because the inside diameter of the worm is bigger then the Original...............




rgds Franco

Last edited by franco-veloce; 07-14-2015 at 04:35 PM.
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post #69 of 86 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Just back from a 5000 km drive across Australia in our 1966 Austin Healey 3000 so I have been out of the loop a bit.

I carefully measured the worm i got from Macs against my old one before I installed it. They are not an easy thing to measure but as far as i could tell they were identical except the new one had no wear!

The steering is now smooth and feels bullet proof. I note that alfa123ca has also fitted one to a left hand drive box with similiar good results.

Regarding lubricants -we are fortunate in Australia to have the wonderful Penrite company who make many lubricant products for old cars. The make a steering box lubricant that is the consistency of syrup which works fantastically in old steering boxes.

Paul
1973 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV and 1964 Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint
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post #70 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-14-2015, 01:56 PM
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Early Ford Store

There's more, all parts have now been found for the 2600 RHD steering box

From Steve in the UK

“Picked up my rebuilt steering box yesterday afternoon. This was a spare box that I had so the original is still on the car.
It feels lovely and smooth compared with how it was when I took it in.
It's tight in central position and then there's just a tiny bit of play in the arm as you go on to full lock either way which is I believe how it should be.
It's been rebuilt with new Worm, Roller, bearings and seals.
I used Roller pt. no. AB-3575-X Ford 1952-1953 3 ridge roller from Early Ford Store $85 plus shipping (no Customs charges) The photo on their web site is wrong and shows a 2 ridge roller but the pt. no. is for a 3 ridge roller. Seems identical to the old one, within tolerances.
Worm kit no. 78-3503 1937-1948 rebuild kit had all the right bearings (but the roller was only 2 ridge) again from Early Ford Store $199 plus shipping (no Customs Charges)

The only problem I had is that the internal spline arrangement of the new worm did not exactly match my old one, all external dimensions were the same. I have e-mailed Mac's Auto and Early Ford Store to ask if they have an exact match of my Worm so just waiting to hear.
Steering Services fitted the new worm and have assured me it is fine, just not perfect.
I'm sure we'll find the Complete kit from these guys with all the right parts for our cars eventually, but not easy to find it when photos show wrong parts etc.

Should be fitted to the car, along with a check of all the steering geometry, in about 2 weeks, so hoping this will solve my problems.
I'll let you know when it's done.”

New steering worm in photo is marked CHS
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Last edited by Redmerlin; 07-14-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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post #71 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 04:29 PM
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Hi All,

I am going to make new reproductions of the worms and rollers

exact copy from the original

AR 1900 , 2000 and 2600 tipo

L&R drive

for price shipping and delivery time PM frankper@xs4all.nl

rgds Franco
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post #72 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 04:51 PM
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Franco,

I thought a company was found that makes high quality original worms and rollers for both RHD and LHD?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #73 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 04:28 AM
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Franco,

If you do copy, a good idea should be to produce the shaft and the worm in one and unique part.
So you don't have to disassemble and reassemble the shaft (that is very hard to do).
(Am I clear ?)
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post #74 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-24-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Rebuilding a 2600 Steering Box

As the originator of this thread could I ask that we leave this thread stand as it is please ie a discussion about using early Ford V8 parts to rebuild Alfa Romeo Gemmer steering boxes to original condition. This discussion has provided a reasonably priced way to solve a long standing problem with our cars. In my case my 2600 has now done more than 1500 km with its 'new' box and steers beautifully. In any case a spare sets of worm and roller sit in my spares box for the princely sum of $90au ready to go into service if ever necessary.

Can we reserve this tread for people who have questions about this solution or who would like to report their experiences of rebuilding their steering box using these readily available parts.

I respect the right for others to pursue other solutions like getting parts specially re manufactured but can we discuss it in a new thread please?

Merry Christmas and Good wishes to all our friends on the AlfaBB.

Paul
1973 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV and 1964 Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint
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post #75 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-24-2015, 02:38 PM
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Bravo QLD,

However, although I originally followed this thread, I never read a clear way to identify just which pieces I need for which box, or where and how to order them.

Could someone who achieved success give us a summary?

Thanks!

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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