2600 Sprint Steering box - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #31 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-01-2015, 01:08 AM
BWB
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Great work

Paul
This is great detective work, and many thanks for sharing it all.
I opened one of my boxes last night and could see/feel no appreciable wear/damage. I don't know what a "good" box should feel like but on the bench it was a smooth run lock to lock and back if slightly heavy, turning with hand leverage only. The box was full of oil so that bodes well.
I need to wait for the weekend and a trip to my folks where I have my other spares and steering box stored and I'll open that one and compare.
Then taking the approach of having a spare to insure against a fault with the original I'll rebuild the spare hopefully with the new found Ford parts!
Many thanks
Bryan
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post #32 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-01-2015, 02:01 AM
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No Pete, It just means that Gemmer kept using the same worm for many years just like your BMW/Holden etc uses bearing designs that are 100 years old or more.
Yes agree.

Amazing that a design could last for so long, especially those years when so many changes in the automobile were occuring as we learnt how to design a car!
Pete

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post #33 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-01-2015, 07:00 PM
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Okay I've had a look at some exploded diagrams of steering boxes and scratched my head and finally I think I understand why the "worm" has to be opposite thread for RHD versus LHD.

I believe it is because the housing and the location of the drop link shaft have been reversed putting the roller on the opposite side of the worm. If manufacturers instead of reversing everything designed a new housing for the opposite side that kept the drop link shaft on the same side of the worm they would not have had to make an opposite thread worm. Of course it is easier just to reverse everything.

Now of course when they are selling these cars new and making thousands RHD and thousands more LHD, making an opposite thread worm is no big deal.
Pete

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post #34 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-01-2015, 10:58 PM
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FWIW, Gemmer was a US company that started supplying steering boxes to Ford for the Model A. According to some stories I read on the Internet, the design was changed in 1937 because of wear-and-tear issues to the general design that we see in the 102/106 steering boxes, which were built by a French company that licensed the technology from Gemmer.

So, following suppliers of steering box parts for '37-'48 Ford (used in many Hot Rods), Morgans (which had both LHD and RHD versions according to this page) and several other US cars (see this list).

Furthermore, CHS in Argentina may be a source (see this web site where the image below is from) may already make worms that fit (they mention they made stuff for a 1900 CSS).

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #35 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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FWIW, Gemmer was a US company that started supplying steering boxes to Ford for the Model A. According to some stories I read on the Internet, the design was changed in 1937 because of wear-and-tear issues to the general design that we see in the 102/106 steering boxes, which were built by a French company that licensed the technology from Gemmer.

So, following suppliers of steering box parts for '37-'48 Ford (used in many Hot Rods), Morgans (which had both LHD and RHD versions according to this page) and several other US cars (see this list).

Furthermore, CHS in Argentina may be a source (see this web site where the image below is from) may already make worms that fit (they mention they made stuff for a 1900 CSS).
Ruedi
The diagram on the Morgan site shows a worm and peg steering box (which is what I thought Morgans have) rather than a worm and roller system.

Paul
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post #36 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Okay I've had a look at some exploded diagrams of steering boxes and scratched my head and finally I think I understand why the "worm" has to be opposite thread for RHD versus LHD.

I believe it is because the housing and the location of the drop link shaft have been reversed putting the roller on the opposite side of the worm. If manufacturers instead of reversing everything designed a new housing for the opposite side that kept the drop link shaft on the same side of the worm they would not have had to make an opposite thread worm. Of course it is easier just to reverse everything.

Now of course when they are selling these cars new and making thousands RHD and thousands more LHD, making an opposite thread worm is no big deal.
Pete
Pete Well done -see there is nothing wrong with your little grey cells! It is further complicated by the steering box design and which side of the chassis rail the manufacturer places the steering box which is why a LHD 48 Ford Worm with a clockwise scroll works in a RHD Alfa Romeo (the steering boxes are on opposite sides of the chassis rail).
Now my little grey cells are hurting!

Paul
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post #37 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-07-2015, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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Steering box success

Hi everyone,

I have now been driving the car for about a week and done a 100 km.

The steering box is now very smooth from lock to lock and the feel is much lighter although I would not describe it as 'light' but very much lighter than it was with the badly worn worm and roller.

The 49 Ford steering worm has been a complete fix

I think I now feel like one of those surgeons that does a heart transplant with the Ford parts being transplanted into the Alfa. I am wondering if I should administer some anti rejection drugs for a while?
alfa123ca likes this.

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post #38 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-07-2015, 11:51 AM
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Steering success

Paul

Yes brilliantly done, is there a similar source for the 3 ridge roller?

I sold a NOS RHD worm and roller about 3 months ago ( I didn't mention this in case you cried!) . The funds from this are now invested in two replacement worms for other RHD car owners with spare over to buy the roller.

And yes the steering on a 2600 is heavy, but power steering can be fitted - there is a video somewhere of a 2600 spider owner spinning the steering wheel of a stationary 2600 spider. I think the solution came from EZ power steering

Or try this thread

2600 heavy steering

rgds

Ian
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post #39 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Paul

Yes brilliantly done, is there a similar source for the 3 ridge roller?

I sold a NOS RHD worm and roller about 3 months ago ( I didn't mention this in case you cried!) . The funds from this are now invested in two replacement worms for other RHD car owners with spare over to buy the roller.

And yes the steering on a 2600 is heavy, but power steering can be fitted - there is a video somewhere of a 2600 spider owner spinning the steering wheel of a stationary 2600 spider. I think the solution came from EZ power steering

Or try this thread

2600 heavy steering

rgds

Ian
Ian
Strangely the worm that fits our Alfa's is used in a Ford with a two ridge roller but my three ridge roller matched the worm. The Mac's company do sell some worms that have matching three ridge rollers (later 50's Fords). I have asked them for more details on these but they are very slow to respond to inquiries. From what limited research I have been able to do on the internet I suspect the later Ford steering boxes (1952 on) all have worms with anti clockwise scrolls which are no good for our RHD cars.

I would love to have an hour or two in their warehouse or even at their parts counter in New York but that ain't going to happen.

By the way I would rate the 2600 steering now as heavier than my 1958 Austin Healey but not as heavy as our Aussie built V8's from the late 60's. Its all relative.

Paul
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post #40 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 05:00 PM
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Hi All,

the 102 ( 2000 touring spider ) used a two ridge roller

the 106 ( 2600 touring spider ) used a three ridge roller

and the worm looks the same for 102 and 106 seri and 1900CSS

the 1900css used a two ridge roller with anti clockwise scrolls worm


rgds Franco
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post #41 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 10:56 AM
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I just received the second worm gear from Macs this time, it is listed as a RHD but the direction of the roller matches my LHD roller. I am having it pressed on today and in the next while will assemble the spare box and try out on the car. It is in fact made in Argentina as Ruedi suspected. For those with LHD CARS IT IS PART # 68-3524-RH
This seems to have solved the expensive refurbishment of the steering boxes.
Cheers, John
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post #42 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 11:37 AM
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Further to John's comments, here are the links to the parts on the Macs web site (and the parts numbers they listed -- note that the same OEM parts number is given for RHD and LHD, but their stock numbers are different):

Ford RHD worm gear: Part #: 32-16762-1, OEM Part #: 68-3524
Ford LHD worm gear: Part #: 32-16761-1, OEM Part #: 68-3524

An exceptional bargain at about USD 60.00 -- even in case it requires additional hardening of the surfaces.

Edit: See discussion below before ordering any parts!!!

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 04-10-2015 at 06:05 PM.
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post #43 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 01:12 PM
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post #44 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Further to John's comments, here are the links to the parts on the Macs web site (and the parts numbers they listed -- note that the same OEM parts number is given for RHD and LHD, but their stock numbers are different):

Ford RHD worm gear: Part #: 32-16762-1, OEM Part #: 68-3524
Ford LHD worm gear: Part #: 32-16761-1, OEM Part #: 68-3524

An exceptional bargain at about USD 60.00 -- even in case it requires additional hardening of the surfaces.
Reudi
Just to be clear 32-16762-1 appears to have an anti -clockwise scroll (and confirmed by John) and will therefore suit a LHD Alfa. Interestingly the other part number you quote is a different part no and stock no to the worm I purchased which fitted my RHD Sprint (32-17597-1). Not sure how this all works. It will be good to hear how John gets on.
Paul

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post #45 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Franco
I am not trying to put anyone off but this is the first website I found and three emails later I am still waiting for them to reply. Perhaps they are more helpful if you ring them?
Paul

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