2600 mods

I was reading the respones to smestas's post "How many miles on your car" and was wondering, after reading DougP's response what mods can be done to the inline 6, weber manifolds seem to be "unobtainium" has anyone used the modified solex that can be gotten from Piacentini's

[tubut]

Well, well, well... lets' open up Pandora's box:

Inspired by this thread, I decided that I will build an electronic fuel injection (EFI) for the 2600. I expect EFI will give me the best of both worlds: Solex-like glass smooth idle even on a cold engine, the smoothness of the PHHs at low RPM, the kick that Webers produce above 3,000 RPM, with noo flat spots, and with much better mileage than any carb can produce.

My first EFI prototype will be running with Suzuki GSXR throttle bodies mentioned in the thread above. Once I have that running, I'll see if the EFI can be fitted inside Solex PHH, Weber DCOE and/or Dell'Orto DHLA bodies to maintain a somwhat original look. However, I have no idea yet about how to hide the crank shaft position sensor (possibly on the flywheel instead of in front of the engine). Obviously, EFI will run on both the Solex intake manifold with or without twinned intake runners and on the Weber manifold. The adjustment will be in software.

A friend of mine already converted 2600 distributors (both, Marelli and Bosch) to contact-less electronic ignition, but out of 4 distributors we looked at so far, only one was near the prescribed advance curve. So, it is clear to me that ignition advance is all over the place. Hence, I will also need to build a distributor-less electronic ignition (based on Ford EDIS) for the 2600 in order to study where the best performance of these engines is.

As you can imagine, it's a long way to go...

Cheers,

Ruedi

[dougp]

When I converted to Weber carbs on my 2600, I was fortunate to have an extra intake manifold to "modify" from it's internally shared design for the Solex carbs to an independent intake port design for each cylinder. I've seen 2600's set-up both ways w/ Webers and am not sure which works best but I've never seen the shared design on a 4 cylinder Alfa w/ Webers so I guess there's a good reason...?
I like Ruedi's idea of F/I on the 2600 for all the reasons he stated but it's not a trivial task...

DougP
Santa Clara, Ca

[tubut]

In my opinion, replacing the Solexes requires Bob Piacentini's modifications.

I know an experienced Alfa mechanic who tried set up Weber 40s on an unmodified Solex manifold. This approach did not give satisfactory results. The car just wouldn't idle properly until the intake channels were separated. I guess the problem stems from the fact that at low RPM, each cylinder sucks mixture from both halfs of the dual carbs, which results in too big a carb on the twinned manifolds (two 40s become the equivalent of a 56 mm carb while two 45s behave like a 63 mm carb). I assume that at higher RPM, the flow constraints of the twinning hole may make the carbs behave more like individual carbs (as with the Solex). In short, jetting must be a nightmare on a twinned manifold.

As for Solexes, certainly the 102 Spiders used Solex PHH two-stage carbs on a 4 cyl engine (maybe the 1900 also, but I'm not sure about that). Some other Alfas had Solex carbs, but not many had the PHHs that required the twinned manifold. My guess would be that the PHHs (and the twinned manifold) were probably a more expensive than other solutions. Of the top of my head, only two other cars come to mind that used them as standard equipment: Mercedes 190 and BMW 2002.

Ruedi

[dretceterini]

Al Cortes has maodified the Solex manifolds from plenum to individual runner type. I agree that you have to find a Weber manifold or modify the Solex manifold to get Webers to operate properly. I've heard of as much as 275 horsepower out of full race 2600 motors on Weber 45s.

[tubut]

Stu,

Are you by any chance referring to Al Cortez' 2600 SZ?

Please advise,

Ruedi

[dretceterini]

I believe that Al's Zagato has a factory Weber manifold, but I kniow that Al has converted some Solex manifolds to single runner type...

[Emilio]

Since engine parts are the hardest to get parts of the 2600 I wonder if anyone ever thought of putting a V6 (of GTV 2.5 or 164) in? Quess you need some kind of adapterplate for the gearbox or a 6 gearbox to make that work.

Is there anyone who took a closer look at that?

Emilio

[tubut]

I don't know if anybody has tried that. I know of cars with V8s, though.

I never got the impression that 2600 engine parts are hard to get. Pistons, rings, liners, rods, bearings, valves, gaskets, etc are all available from a number of sources. About the most difficult part to get are the impeller of the water pump. And I've been advising several owners that getting a good replacement engine form a low-mileage Sprint may be a better way to go than overhauling an engine ($1,000-1,500 vs. $5,000-7,000).

Ruedi

[dretceterini]

2600 engine parts aren't all that hard to find, but they are pretty expensive. A complete gasket kit alone is well over $500. It wouldn't be hard to spend over $5,000 on a complete engine and tranny rebuild.

[Emilio]

I want to make my car fit for daily usage. So that would need, imho an easier and cheaper to maintain engine. A V6 is an excellent engine, loads of power and may fit the gearbox?????
Anyone any clou if it fits the gearbox?

Since I now have th choice between renovating the orignal engine and replacing it with the V6, of course incombination with ECU etc, I am trying to figure out what cost more and what the problems are I am facing.

Emilio

[dretceterini]

IMO, putting a V-6 into a 2600 woul turn it in to a worthless hot-rod...but to each his own...

[Emilio]

I am in there for the design.
The 2600 is not really a wanted car. So value is not at the level it should be.
And will never be. So, I got the car, I love the design and like to use it daily.
I know the 6 in line is great, but it block daily usage.
I wise it was not.

I am in here for my own pleasure, not to invest, or to get rich. I just want to drive this beauty!

Emilio

[dretceterini]

Of course the car is yours, and you can do as you wish. My "problem" is that so many older Alfas have disappeared. Of the approx 10,000 102 (2000 cast iron) plus 106 (2600) series cars built, and the approx 2000 known to exist today, there are only 100 or so in the entire world that have been restored properly.

[tubut]

Emilio,

Here is somebody you may want to talk to about an engine/gearbox conversion:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2473201998

Ruedi