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02-22-2007, 03:15 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti Sup
Indeed, the first registration of 856013 was 13 april 1966 ; owner : Raymond Sauveterre in Montpellier (France). Then in 1980 or 1985, Jean-Pierre Esquirol bought the car. I have bought this car from Jean-Pierre Esquirol and with the car, I have a copy of a invoice of Conrero dated the 29 october 1966 at the name of Raymond Sauveterre
The engine number is AR 00601*10034*
Thank you Ruedi for informations about my car. I send you via your e-mail a scan of the copy of the invoice. Unfortunatly, the quality is bad.
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Strange coincidence that the chassis number of the Patriarca car ends in 034 ??!!
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02-22-2007, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 383
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Per Ruedi,
This is the Patriarca car 856034 previously discussed in this thread.
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)

Last edited by 67alloy; 02-23-2007 at 04:34 PM.
Reason: clarity
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02-23-2007, 12:23 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67alloy
So that the others know the car we are talking about...
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This is the Patriarca car 856034 previously discussed in this thread.
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
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02-23-2007, 12:48 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti Sup
Indeed, the first registration of 856013 was 13 april 1966 ; owner : Raymond Sauveterre in Montpellier (France). Then in 1980 or 1985, Jean-Pierre Esquirol bought the car. I have bought this car from Jean-Pierre Esquirol and with the car, I have a copy of a invoice of Conrero dated the 29 october 1966 at the name of Raymond Sauveterre
The engine number is AR 00601*10034*
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In my opinion, this is a genuine 2600 SZ engine and was probably the original engine in the car. I'm guessing that Raymond Sauveterre may have been disappointed with the performance of the original engine, had it pulled, sent to Conrero and re-installed.
One of the peculiar things about 2600 SZ engines, which I consider almost a fact based on statistical evidence of data I personally collected, is that the engine number range starts at 10000 -- a range that according to Fusi and other sources does not exist (and I have yet to come across a 00612 engine as listed in Fusi). I consider any correlation between engine and chassis number on 2600 SZ cars a pure coincidence, but I do know of one or two such matches.
BTW: So far, I have found absolutely zero indication that there is ANY difference in performance between 2600 SZ and Sprint/Spider engines. The only differences I know of are (a) the engine mounts having a different angle (because of smaller rubber supports) and (b) an unconfirmed difference in the oil pump using a narrower adapter for the hoses to the oil cooler -- both of which are concerning clearance issues inside the 2600 SZ engine compartment and not performance.
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Last edited by tubut; 02-23-2007 at 12:50 AM.
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02-23-2007, 07:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut
In my opinion, this is a genuine 2600 SZ engine and was probably the original engine in the car. I'm guessing that Raymond Sauveterre may have been disappointed with the performance of the original engine, had it pulled, sent to Conrero and re-installed.
One of the peculiar things about 2600 SZ engines, which I consider almost a fact based on statistical evidence of data I personally collected, is that the engine number range starts at 10000 -- a range that according to Fusi and other sources does not exist (and I have yet to come across a 00612 engine as listed in Fusi). I consider any correlation between engine and chassis number on 2600 SZ cars a pure coincidence, but I do know of one or two such matches.
BTW: So far, I have found absolutely zero indication that there is ANY difference in performance between 2600 SZ and Sprint/Spider engines. The only differences I know of are (a) the engine mounts having a different angle (because of smaller rubber supports) and (b) an unconfirmed difference in the oil pump using a narrower adapter for the hoses to the oil cooler -- both of which are concerning clearance issues inside the 2600 SZ engine compartment and not performance.
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As you are now keeper of the 2600SZ register (I asssume you have all the information from when Dean Hokanson kept it), do you happen to know which cars had Webers as original equipment? It seems that very few spiders or sprints (if any) originally had Webers, but a few Zagatos did...
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02-23-2007, 11:37 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini
As you are now keeper of the 2600SZ register (I asssume you have all the information from when Dean Hokanson kept it), do you happen to know which cars had Webers as original equipment? It seems that very few spiders or sprints (if any) originally had Webers, but a few Zagatos did...
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Yes, I have Dean's information as he was kind enough to let me borrow and scan his whole correspondence relating to the 2600 SZ register. There seems to be no official information about which ones came with Webers and which ones didn't. So far, it appears only one car was delivered with Webers from the factory, but several cars were later retrofitted with Webers manifolds (usually without the correct air intake plenum and cross-over tube).
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Last edited by tubut; 02-23-2007 at 12:08 PM.
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02-24-2007, 05:52 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Schmidt
Hi all,
the "Padova" SZ as well as the "classicscars.com" SZ are the same car with chassis number 856.034. Bonhams tried to sell it at their 2006 Monaco auction with no success. Seller then was Auto Classic of Moncalieri/Torino were the car is/was stored.
According to Auto Classic it was tuned/race prepared by Patriarca.
Regards
Bjoern
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Car was own by autoclassic in montecatimi torino, they bought it in a big trade with ferrari f40, f50 and a lancia monte carlo gr5
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08-23-2007, 03:53 PM
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