Wire wheel conversion kits - info request - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-07-2015, 06:59 PM
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Franco, the splined adapters (I think they call them spiders if they don't replace the hubs and contain bearings, races and seals) look very nice. So do the two eared Alfa Romeo script knock-off nuts. I did not care much for the three eared k/o's of the Milano Spares set.

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Originally Posted by IRONBLOCK View Post
A good friend and 2600 Sprint owner Bud McIntyre bought those wheels and 3-eared spinners from Milano Spares. He imported them and a few years later sold the car to Tom Sanor.
This year, while displaying the 1959 Touring Roadster at the 'Atlanta Italian Car Day', Bud McIntyre and Tom Sanor just happened to approach me. Bud mentioned that when he sold his 2600 to Tom, Tom was not interested in the 'Milano Spares' wire wheels. Bud sold the un-restored wire wheels on eBay, I believe it would have been at least 10 years ago.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 10:00 AM
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Hi All,

I have a set of 4 pieces Borrani wire wheels RW-3598 5,5 x 400 with 4 hubs and 4 2-ear wheel nuts with Alfa Rome script. All restored
to new condition. The wheels came originally from a Ferrari 250 of the mid '50 and do fit perfectly to the 102 Sprint or Touring Spider 2000 or the 1900 range. With some modifications the set can be used also on the 2600 cars with disc brakes. You can use the original standard
tire in 165 x 400. For more information and photos please contact me
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 10:07 AM
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Borrani RW-3598 5,5 x 400 for Alfa 1900 or 2000

Hi All,

I have a set of 4 pieces Borrani wire wheels RW-3598 5,5 x 400 with 4 hubs and 4 2-ear wheel nuts with Alfa Rome script. All restored
to new condition. The wheels came originally from a Ferrari 250 of the mid '50 and do fit perfectly to the 102 Sprint or Touring Spider 2000 or the 1900 range. With some modifications the set can be used also on the 2600 cars with disc brakes. You can use the original standard
tire in 165 x 400. For more information and photos please contact me
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
pictures of the hubs and spinners
About a year since these pics were posted.
Update?

Looking for a pair of hubs to fit the rear of a '74 Spider and hoping they are compatible with Rudge-Whitworth Triumph or Jaguar wheels?
I know that may sound strange but I'm building a SNO type car on a budget.

Twin-Cam Hemi, Webers, Headers, Overdrive, Disc brakes, and no emissions equipment to spoil it all. These are gonna be FUN rides!
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 07:58 AM
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Hi

Here are the original Borranni ones for anyone that needs them

1900 https://www.borrani.com/alfa-romeo-wheels/1900.html
2000 https://www.borrani.com/alfa-romeo-wheels/2000.html
2600 https://www.borrani.com/alfa-romeo-wheels/2600.html

We also currently have stock of the 165HR400 Cinturato CA67 165HR400 PIRELLI CINTURATOâ„¢ CA67 | Longstone Tyres

T^he other exciting news for the Alfa Romeo Giulietta is they are now re making the 15" Turb Sport and Turbo Sprint BiMetal wheels again https://www.borrani.com/news.html
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 09:49 PM
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So, I sent an email to Borrani asking about about which is the correct wheel for the 2000, and what is the price?

No answer.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2016, 02:00 AM
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Hi

Which Borrani?

We run the UK distributorship www.borrani.com

Here is the listing for your wheels https://www.borrani.com/alfa-romeo-w...s-1957-65.html

this email will get you an answer sales@borrani.com

You may also have to make allowances for time differences if you are contacting Europe
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 11:23 AM
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What about 16" tires?

If one must pay such prices for production of new wire wheels, why not get modern tire sizes. 165x400 mm are fine for the cars, I admit, but why not decent rubber? Trouble is fitting the tires inside the fenders, I suspect, so merely having different rims without someone measuring how they fit on the cars is chancy. However 165 mm is about six and a half inches. Still, using 600x16 tires could be too high in profile ratio (weren't they about what a 95 aspect ratio -- like 195R95x14 used on 1977 Mustang II? I understand Don Peterson used 560R60x16 on his specially measured and ordered bolt on wheels for his two liter. He needs to chime in and say specifically what size. His seem to fit well. The problem is more than just saying 16" tires.

I have had 1900 wire wheels on my two liter spider for many years now. However, I wish I had realized it would have merely required a change of front wheel bearings to use the 1900 hubs on a two liter. I had to find an "old timer" machinist with a 19" throw war surplus lathe to turn my front spindles pegged on two centers with a dog. He said his lathe was used to make cannon barrels in WWII.

But they work fine. Nobody is ever going to race a two liter anyway because on hard sustained turns the oil all runs to the side of the pan and the engine starves and blows rod bearings. The sportiva engine based on the same block as the two liter had a dry sump, but I suspect also a windage tray. I have long thought of making one. Maybe that wonderful machinist in Minnesota who solved the spin on oil filter adaptor problems for 1900, 2000 and 2600 can make things like that and also some adopters for wire wheels? Let's Ask him:

Myron Cottrell hpfarm@aol.com c(612) 868-6596
HP FARM (952) 448-5330
4255 Creek Road
Chaska, MN 55318

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 10:44 PM
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Jay,

Currently laid up in a hospital room (hope to be home tomorrow), so can't run out to the garage to check the size.

I THINK they are 205 65 16 Pirelli P4, but will confirm in a day or two.

Although they offer acceptable clearance, I get a tiny bit of scuff during a full lock, slow speed turn. It rarely happens.

With the current exchange rate, I'm considering a set of brand "B" wheels. Still thinking on it.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 11:10 AM
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Don, I hope everything is OK and that you'll be home soon !
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 03:12 AM
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Hi

There are aa few points i would like to make

1/ I strongly recomend always fitting inner tubes in wire wheels. Even though i am aware there are wire wheels available these days thatt claim to be tubeless i don't think the way they do it is really fit for purpose. Here is evidence
It is also worth pointing out that Borrani https://www.borrani.com/ do not make tubeless wire wheels for classic cars. (Borrani have developed a tubeless wire wheel for modern cars, but as you can see it is a totally different technology which you can see in the picture below, and if you are interested i can explain why it is so different.)

2/ you should not fit tyres such as 205/65R16 onto a wire wheel, because you should not fit inner tubes in anything lower than 70% profile.

3/ There are perfectly good tyres available for the 400mm Alfa 1900 Borrani wire wheels wheels, made by both Michelin & Pirelli Cinturato 165R400 options
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 04:35 AM
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The Dayton wheels are engineered for tubeless use, and recommend against adding tubes to a tubeless tire.

So far, they have performed very well. Perhaps tubeless on a Boranni is incorrect, but not all wire wheels.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 05:15 AM
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Hi

i seriously recommend fitting tubes regardless as to weather they claim to be tubeless or not. we have come across several problems with tubeless wire wheels, which is why Borrani don't use them.

Did you watch my video?
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 06:41 AM
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Yes, I watched your video.

Your recommendation is irresponible and dangerous.

The Dayton design is engineered for tubeless operation, and they have supplied tens of thousands over the years with success. Recommending that someone install a tube inside a tubeless tire is wrong and dangerous. The interior wall of tubeless tires can cause friction and failure of the tubes.

The Dayton wheels may well have shortcomings compared to Boranni is some ways. The Daytons are very heavy, much of which is due to very heavy construction of the rim. This makes your video irrelevant to Dayton wheels.

I believe you are unwisely assuming the Dayton design and Boranni are largely similar.

I accept that the Boranni wheels offer many pluses, which is why I am considering a set. However, if a vendor makes irresponsible and technically incorrect statements, I am inclined to shop elsewhere.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
Yes, I watched your video.
Then you can see that they are not sealed properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
The Dayton design is engineered for tubeless operation, and they have supplied tens of thousands over the years with success.
Firstly we have come across failures in tubeless wire wheels from a range of wheel manufacturers. However; just because many people have used tubeless wire wheels and not had a problem does not mean that failures do not occur. and you can clearfly see aa failed one on that video. and the older these wheels get (ie the more tyres are taken off and on these wheels) the more failures we are going to see as the mastic is disturbed. i don't believe the mastic is a proper engineering solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
Recommending that someone install a tube inside a tubeless tire is wrong and dangerous. The interior wall of tubeless tires can cause friction and failure of the tubes.
That is wrong. Use a good tube. probably Michelin Inner Tubes | Longstone Tyres

Any 70% profile tyre regardless of weather it is called a tubeless tyre or not can fit an inner tube. It is incorrect to say
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
The interior wall of tubeless tires can cause friction and failure of the tubes.
that is not relevant to a 70% or taller profile tyre. That is for low profile tyres.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
The Dayton wheels may well have shortcomings compared to Boranni is some ways. The Daytons are very heavy, much of which is due to very heavy construction of the rim. This makes your video irrelevant to Dayton wheels.
Ruote Borrani Milano use an Aluminium rim

We have had this failure, and air coming out around the spokes with a range of different manufacturers of tubeless wire wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
I believe you are unwisely assuming the Dayton design and Boranni are largely similar.
We work with wire wheels all the time. the Structural part of wire wheel design is principally the same. I believe the Dayton tubeless wheel design puts some Mastic over the spoke heads, and when a tyre is changed it sometimes pulls out. In our experience some times we have had tubeless wire wheels that have leaked when they are first fitted with tyres. and having tyres taken on and off increases the likelihood of failure.

It is fair to say that these tubeless wire wheels do have a safety rib built into the profile of the rim. which is an improvement if you are running tubeless, but first there should be a better way of sealing the rim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
I accept that the Boranni wheels offer many pluses, which is why I am considering a set. However, if a vendor makes irresponsible and technically incorrect statements, I am inclined to shop elsewhere.
This vendor has not made a "irresponsible and technically incorrect statements," this vendor is sharing his experience from having dealt with lots of wheels.

I'm sorry but i feel you must have been fed some false information from else where.

I do not have a particular thing against Dayton wheels. I think they generally make pretty good wheels. However our experience is that we occasionally come across a failed tubeless wire wheels. And on top of that every time tyres are re fitted to these mastic coated wire wheels there is a greater likelihood of having a failure, as the mastic gets disturbed on the spoke heads.





there is no need for tubeless wire wheels.

All cars that fitted wire wheels fitted inner tubes in period.

all cars that fitted wire wheels as standard fitted either 70% profile tyres or taller. all of which can be fitted with a tube regardless of weather it says tubeless on the side wall or not.

Fit good quality tubes in every wire wheel.

Do not fit anything lower than 70% profile on a wire wheel.

(this bit always gets people revved up) fitting anything lower profile than 70% on a car that was designed in the wire wheel period will have a derogatory effect on the handling unless you modify the car to suit them.

(It is fair to say that some modern Morgans come fitted with low profile tyres on tubeless wire wheels, and we have come across failures with these too. when we have fitted modern Morgans with taller thinner tyres the owners have been over the moon with how much better the car handles on a thinner tyre )
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