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post #31 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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Tire size is an issue; I looked up the respective diameters of the 165-400 and 205 55-16 and there's about a 1 1/2" difference between the two with the 205's being shorter. (Am I correct in understanding that the 165's are about 26.6" diameter?)
26.6" is correct. Bob Piacentini put together some thoughts about wheels and has a nifty tire sizing calculator accessible tjrough his web page. According to his calculator, 16" 205/60 tires are about 25.6" in diameter. When I dabbled with tire issues a while ago, I noticed that the actual diameter value may vary depending on manufacturer and/or load ratings for a specific tire.

In my opinion, 205/60 tires require shorter springs -- else they look too small in the wheel well.

-Ruedi
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post #32 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Bob's page is good reading....and if I understand things, he's recommending a 205-65-16 tire as the closest size, but also saying that its not available.

However, a check with TireRack shows somewhere in the vicinity of 10 tires in that size( not counting snow tires) 2 of which I would certainly buy becaue of good price/performance ratios (a Yokohama @ $69 and a Goodyear @ $ 89.)

The diameter is right on the money at 26.6" for the Yoko, 26.5 for the Goodyears, fit rims as narrow as 5.5"; section width at 8.2 and tread width 6.6"

Can I conclude that if we could get a 6" wide rim from Dayton and get caliper clearance we could have an elegant (if not inexpensive) solution?

Obviously the tradeoffs are some vintage appearance issues, including non vintage-look wider tires, but gains are in safety including shorter braking distances, improvement in handling and lower replacement cost of tires. Of course, this only solves the problem for those who like wire wheels.

Personally, I would like every potential issue to be raised and the overly optimistics ones shot down as I'm the newbie in the group and saying my mechanical knowledge is limited is still over-rating it.

regards,

David

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post #33 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 05:44 PM
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Smile DAYTON WIRES with MICHELIN 550HR16 courtesy of Cliff Jones

Gentlemen: Here, courtesy of Cliff Jones, are photos of Dayton Wire wheels fitted with speedometer correct Michelin 550HR16 tires (NOT 600x16 since these are radials slightly less in width) along with costs -- wheels, adaptors, knock-offs and tires. We should invite this man to enjoy the AlfaBB with us. His car is ready to go now with the exception of the engine which I am re-building up for him with oversize pistons, new bearings, stainless steel valves and seats, new guildes with stem seals and 9mm stems, weber carburetors, fitted cold air box, redone gearbox, clutch, etc. Still needs to by dyno'd. He says his wife will soon be so disgusted by the delay she will demand he send me the car too (which I need like a third nostril). But I understand. An Alfa cries to be driven. (BE SURE TO CHECK THE ATTACHED FILE ON PRICES) Jay

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post #34 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoliterlover
Gentlemen: Here, courtesy of Cliff Jones, are photos of Dayton Wire wheels fitted with speedometer correct Michelin 550HR16 tires (NOT 600x16 since these are radials slightly less in width) along with costs -- wheels, adaptors, knock-offs and tires. We should invite this man to enjoy the AlfaBB with us. His car is ready to go now with the exception of the engine which I am re-building up for him with oversize pistons, new bearings, stainless steel valves and seats, new guildes with stem seals and 9mm stems, weber carburetors, fitted cold air box, redone gearbox, clutch, etc. Still needs to by dyno'd. He says his wife will soon be so disgusted by the delay she will demand he send me the car too (which I need like a third nostril). But I understand. An Alfa cries to be driven. (BE SURE TO CHECK THE ATTACHED FILE ON PRICES) Jay
Looks great, and at 1/3rd of the price of Borranis and tires
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post #35 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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so am I to understand that the "adapters" simply fit onto the existing 5 lug hubs and convert to knockoffs?

also, how much improvement do 550HR16 provide over the 400 hr16 tires?

and is this 2000 discs front, drums rear with similar clearances to the 2600?

David

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post #36 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 09:11 PM
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Answers to David

Quote:
Originally Posted by D&SW
so am I to understand that the "adapters" simply fit onto the existing 5 lug hubs and convert to knockoffs? also, how much improvement do 550HR16 provide over the 400 hr16 tires? and is this 2000 discs front, drums rear with similar clearances to the 2600?
David
1. Yes Adapters fit onto the 5 lug hubs (Ford bolt pattern) and convert to knockoffs
2. Don't know, but right size for speedometer which is "optimistic" with 165x400 and would be about right for 600x16 with which earliest 1900's were fitted, and you can try other 16" tires if careful of clearance under fenders.
3. Basically same clearances, but two liter never had discs at all, only drums; 2600 drums at first, then discs front with rear drums, then discs all round. 1900 wheels fits two liters which fit 2600 (hub caps interchange, but some particular caps more common on particular cars).

Look nice, don't they? Don't forget to check the attachment on specific order numbers for parts. (BHW Here is a Hint - knockoff should mount LH threads on right side so the motion of wheels will tighten them instead of loosen them.) Jay

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post #37 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 10:06 PM
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These Dayton seem to be a relatively inexpensive option to put wire wheels on a car. Other than that, I fail to see what is gained.

Except for the speed rating, there doesn't seem to be much improvement going from 165SR400 tires to 550HR16 tires. Ignoring shipping, both types of tires seem to cost about the same (1 GBP = USD 1.88). The section width of the 550HR16 is only 5 mm wider than the 165SR400. Substituting another make for the Michelin (see here what other brands Coker offers) seems like a step back in time.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now being restored in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #38 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-05-2006, 11:03 PM
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True, there are two schools of thought going on in this thread. Back to the high-performance option:

http://www.realmengineering.com/

Check out the Dunlop style racing wheels made in aluminum to fit most anything!

Wm. Hall
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post #39 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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Well, am I missing something here?
Namely, wouldn't the ideal situation be Dayton wires made in say 6" wheel width to accomodate the 205-65-16 modern tire? (which has the correct
26.6" o.d.)

With that option (if it clears fenders, brakes etc.) you get the vintage wire look and far superior tire performance. This is what I'm looking for.

For track/performance, wires are never really a viable option are they? So maybe it would be a good idea for to separate these discussions with another thread on performance-only wheels/rubber.

David

'74 GTV, '64 2600 Spider
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post #40 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Dayton makes 6 x 15 and 6 x 16 KO and Bolt on wires; they are sending me a measurement sheet to use in determining whether a particular wheel will fit;

I will post it here as as soon as I receive it.

Is anyone interested in participating in a "group buy'?

David

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post #41 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D&SW
Well, am I missing something here?
Namely, wouldn't the ideal situation be Dayton wires made in say 6" wheel width to accomodate the 205-65-16 modern tire? (which has the correct
26.6" o.d.)

With that option (if it clears fenders, brakes etc.) you get the vintage wire look and far superior tire performance. This is what I'm looking for.

For track/performance, wires are never really a viable option are they? So maybe it would be a good idea for to separate these discussions with another thread on performance-only wheels/rubber.

David

There are no problems using wire wheels, IF they are maintained, for racing purposes. The vast majority of sports cars used them in the 1950s and early to mid 1960s....even the Ferrari GTOs
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post #42 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 09:28 AM
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The wires are very pretty, but I am not sure that anyone would ever advise switching from a solid to a wire wheel to improve handling (at least in a high performance application). Having said that, the Daytons are much safer than using reconditioned vintage wheels.

If the small differences bug you, you can always buy the stickers and 'real' engraved Borrani spinners.http://www.dragoneclassics.com/borrani_wheels.htm My bet is that they are the same thread as the Dayton spinners; ask them- they will be frank with you if they fit or not.

Or, simply go with the bolt on's and save the extra expense. Borrani did make bolt-on's that were used in that era; I have a set on my '70 Ghibli.

I think the aluminum Realmengineering "Dunlop" style wheels deserve a hard look though. About the same price it seems.

Suddenly the problem is "too many options"?
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post #43 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2006, 01:01 AM
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Hi guys,
It certainly looks as though Bill has struck the nail squarely with the Realm "Dunlop" type wheel. Obviously, they will need to meet the dimensions of the stock rim, save diameter. Also, as the wheels are available in a 5 bolt pattern, the" bolt on" hub becomes redundant. The visual aspect ( as far as I can tell ) is in keeping with the era and style, and one will not exceed the wheels VNE as long as it's attatched to a 2600.............Price and availability?
These would seem to be the final hurdles to this tiring dilemma.... (Oh dear!)
Cheers Adrian
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post #44 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2006, 02:19 AM
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What about these wheels?
These are Technomagnesio, 15 inch with a wide Tyre from Avon. As I recall it was a 205/70/15 Tyre what really gives a nice and muscular look.....



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post #45 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2006, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
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It's good to learn that there are several options since it brings the decision to the point where it ideally should be: one of taste and application.

some will prefer wires, some a solid wheel (the same options we had 40 yers ago), so we can "nail" whatever we want (except the tire, ha ha....)

I've particularly benefited from this discussion since I had no knowledge of any wheel options when this thread started.

I gratefully thank all the contributors to it.

David

'74 GTV, '64 2600 Spider
www.Alfa-Owners.org
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