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post #211 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 09:54 AM
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I know this is a wheel section thread, but here are some pics of the carbs being rebuilt at the same time. All the work is being done at Naples Classic Car. Really excellent shop. They just won a lot of awards at the 26th Cavallino Ferrari event at The Breakers two weeks ago.
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post #212 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 06:20 AM
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Back to the wheels, I would be happy with either 175 or 185 wide tyre with 70 or 80 sidewall ,it does not have to go to 215 does it? I cant see this would put strain on steering or suspension components . Chris
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post #213 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 10:06 AM
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Back to the wheels, I would be happy with either 175 or 185 wide tyre with 70 or 80 sidewall ,it does not have to go to 215 does it? I cant see this would put strain on steering or suspension components . Chris
Good point. Yes, i think you could very easily mount 6 inch rims and do 175 to 195 width tires. I chose the 7 inch width after discussion with Crosbie who had great success with his conversion.
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post #214 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 11:02 AM
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Check the rolling diameter before finalizing your selection.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #215 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 12:04 PM
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Thanks for the great information. I have been looking into different options for wheels, that would keep the look of the originals, but give a wider choice of tire options and this looks like a perfect solution. I'll be getting in touch with Stockton Wheel Products to see about getting mine done as well.

Cheers,

Steve
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post #216 of 225 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 03:12 PM
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wheels mounted

So here are some quick pics of the wheels mounted with the BF Goodrich TA 215/60/16 and the sport Koni's on all 4 corners; The car sits a bit higher than I would like. I am contemplating getting shorter springs to lower the ride height 1.5 inches. Does anyone have any information/source/tips for sport springs, modifications, etc?
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post #217 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:10 AM
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I appreciate your input and caution, well said; I read similar points earlier in the thread. That being said, I think the added safety of the modern tires out weighs the potential heavy steering wheel at low speeds.
Sorry that is misguided.

There is no "added safety" with modern tyres. Your car is not safer on modern tyres.
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post #218 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 11:41 AM
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Sorry that is misguided.

There is no "added safety" with modern tyres. Your car is not safer on modern tyres.
I have personally experienced improved braking and handling from my P4 Pirelli tires as compared to the 165X400 Michelins. Particularly in wet conditions. I consider this "improved safety".

I am installing a new set of CA67s today, and plan to drive on them while one of my Dayton wheels is re-tuned. I look forward to comparing their behavior against the later-model P4.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #219 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:10 AM
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I have personally experienced improved braking and handling from my P4 Pirelli tires as compared to the 165X400 Michelins. Particularly in wet conditions. I consider this "improved safety".
Under what circumstances, dry, wet in a straight line, on a bend, etc. It is never quite as clear cut as that, a tyre selection is a balance of a variety of factors.

How old were the 165R400 tyres that you took off? It is fair to say when you take off a tyre that will be a few years old and fit fresh rubber then you will get better braking, i would suggest particularly in the wet.

Yes modern tyres have moved on, but in association with the cars they are fitted to. which are set up to take advantage of the wider footprints and squarer carcasses etc. and a 2600 Alfa is still the car it was when it was built, unless you start dramatically altering the geometry.

It is fair to say that, the classic tyres that are currently being made by Pirelli and Michelin today, can take advantages of modern manufacturing techniques, and importantly modern rubber compounds, which they do. This means that the small foot print of rubber that is presented to the road on a tyre carcass that is suited to compliment the steering and suspension of the car that it is fitted to, is of the highest standard, considering the balance between wet use, durability, etc. And while doing so we can also make them look right.

I don't know if you have seen this article Classic Porsche Tyres | Longstone Tyres which is an article written by a German magazine, where they test a selection of classic tyres. Granted it is not the CA67 tread pattern. and the other criticism i have come across of this article, is that they do not use a modern tyre in the comparison. What should be taken from this article it that it is not a comparison, this is classic tyres scoring the points they score in a modern tyre test irrelevant of what other tyres are being tested, the test results are then put in a table for you to compare. So when the Cinturato scores a 1 in dry braking, then that is it. That is as good as you can expect.

When you fit a wider tyre the steering does just get heavier.
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post #220 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:25 AM
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Doug...

Years ago I observed many fellow pilots buying "more modern" propellers for their aerobatic aircraft. They would do side-by-side tests, and pronounce their new prop to be better than the old. I soldiered on with the 30 year old design prop, using my money to buy fuel for practice. Generally, I was the more successful in competition.

What is the best prop? The one that makes you happiest.

My 59 2000 has about 40% more power than a stock car, and Koni shocks. I enjoy making timed runs up the hill to Lake Tahoe. This road often has stretches where water, or ice, crosses the tarmac. The all-weather P4 Pirellis have performed flawlessly in this role. I drove new Mich 165-400s back in the 70's when I lived in Houston. The tires were a bit scary when the roads were wet, which is often in Houston.

Can you tell me why I should value someone else's test over my own experience?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #221 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:46 AM
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What is the best prop? The one that makes you happiest.
I totally agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
My 59 2000 has about 40% more power than a stock car, and Koni shocks. I enjoy making timed runs up the hill to Lake Tahoe. This road often has stretches where water, or ice, crosses the tarmac. The all-weather P4 Pirellis have performed flawlessly in this role. I drove new Mich 165-400s back in the 70's when I lived in Houston. The tires were a bit scary when the roads were wet, which is often in Houston.
It is difficult to discuss what the handling of a Michelin X was like in comparison to tyre built recently with modern compounds, However it is on a modified car, adjusted to suit, with stiffer suspension.

current classic tyres are perfectly safe on classic cars. I disagree that fitting a modern different wheel and tyre makes them safer. It makes them different. However, I agree that it is what makes you happiest that counts, after all why else would we play around with old machinery.
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post #222 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 08:51 AM
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Doug,

Partly in humor...

In the US we are currently living in a (hopefully short-lived) era of people in high office telling us things we know not to be true.

The phrase "perfectly safe" is a phrase we all know to be "alternatively true". I would say that my car, sitting on jack stands with its wheels removed is "perfectly safe". But, even there it might fall on me and change the shape of my head.

There was a time when a tire's wet handling was thought to be primarily a function of its width (more narrow being better) and inflation. As you note, better compounds and better-researched tread patterns have improved wet handling. My experience with new Mich X tire's on my 102 in the rain was a bit scary.

So, are you saying that the new CA67 is a modern compound, and not the same as the original? Which you claim was designed perfectly for the original car? So the modern compound is, or is not, more safe?
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #223 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 08:52 AM
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I'm sad to say that the US is not the only country run by blithering idiots who have no idea what the truth is. either that, or they just don't care what the truth is. It's hard to tell.

No tyres are made the same as they were back in the '60s, '70s or even '80s. The rules have changed about what chemicals we are allowed to use to make tyres. Which is a good thing really. effectually what we do with a tyres tread pattern is grind it into a fine powder and put it into the water system. so if we can make it less ozone angry that is a good thing.

The caracass can also not be exactly the same either. however the important thing is that the people building the tyres have an understanding of the cars geometry. so without knowing too much about your exact car what we do know is that in that period cars had no real camber or caster to speak of. where as a modern car has technology such as a shorter top wishbone meaning that as the supervention is loaded up under cornering forces and the car rolls it adds adverse camber. of course modern cars don't roll like they did in the day. so a tyre from the period like the Cinturato has rounded shoulders, and as the car leans it rolls round onto the shoulders, rather than lifting up the inside of the tyre and dramatically having less grip as a more modern tyre does.

It is tricky to describe in words try these pictures.
the first picture on top is a classic car with modern square tyres where the car has rolled and climbed onto the edge of the tyre.
the one underneath is the same car in the same circumstaance but with a proper classic tyre (look how happy he is)
The 3rd one is a modern car with fat tyres that it is able to take full advantage of because he has adverse caamber with the supention loaded
The next is a bit of a disappointing picture of a tyre i raced on in a Lexus that has completely chewed the outside edge of the tyre off because it didn't have enough adverse camber. so when the car leans it is just using that outside edge.
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post #224 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:10 AM
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I've had only two drives on my new CA67s, due to annoying weather. We received over a foot of snow yesterday, first 6" overnight, followed by a thorough shoveling of all of the many sidewalks on my property, followed by another 5" of snow, followed by my grandson shoveling it all clear, followed by another 2" of snow. Spring is overdue.

Anyway, the ride on the tires remains pleasant. It remains to be seen how they behave in the wet, or hard cornering in the dry.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is online now  
post #225 of 225 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:13 AM
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I like driving in snow
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