Hardtop - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Hardtop

How rare are factory hardtops on a Alfa Romeo 2000/102 touring and what $ value would you place on one in very good condition


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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 09:09 PM
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Good questions about the hardtop but I doubt that there are easy answers. I can tell you that the "early" Two-Liter hard top is shown in Alfa Romeo or Touring's black and white photograph above. There was also a "later" Two-Liter hard top, which looks similar but adds more headroom over the back seat (shelf) area and a more abrupt transition to the rear window.

The 2600 Touring has a very similar looking top to the "later" Two-Liter hard top and they will absolutely not interchange between the Two-Liter and the 2600. Several of us have tried; trust me.

As to number constructed: I believe that there were something like 3663 Touring bodied Roadsters made between 1958 and 1962. I would be very suprised if more than 10% (or even 5%) of the cars came with or received factory hardtops. That said, my hardtops Touring number is HT930 which is a fairly large number. Here is some more information regarding tops:

Hard Top restoration
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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Good questions about the hardtop but I doubt that there are easy answers. I can tell you that the "early" Two-Liter hard top is shown in Alfa Romeo or Touring's black and white photograph above. There was also a "later" Two-Liter hard top, which looks similar but adds more headroom over the back seat (shelf) area and a more abrupt transition to the rear window.

The 2600 Touring has a very similar looking top to the "later" Two-Liter hard top and they will absolutely not interchange between the Two-Liter and the 2600. Several of us have tried; trust me.

As to number constructed: I believe that there were something like 3663 Touring bodied Roadsters made between 1958 and 1962. I would be very suprised if more than 10% (or even 5%) of the cars came with or received factory hardtops. That said, my hardtops Touring number is HT930 which is a fairly large number. Here is some more information regarding tops:

Hard Top restoration
Hi ,

Just looked at your pictures in imageshack what a Beautiful car and color do you still owner her
Thank you for all the info on the top. So a car with a factory top should command a higher price and I love the look of the both ways it's like owning two different cars. I felt that way when I owned my 79 SL
Well if you get some time PM me I would like to talk to you about your car

Al

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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-24-2015, 06:18 PM
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another early 102 hardtop for viewing

It is Touring.

Regret not photographing it in bare metal. My shop was impressed with how simply Touring had laid out and assembled the sheet metal.

RB
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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 01:22 PM
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It is Touring.
RB
Very nice Richard! I think the early style top looks best. Is your Touring hardtop gray or black?

Also, congratulations on posting a photograph! Did you notice, your car is my Avatar car photograph?

Mark

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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 01:54 PM
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an autocrossing 2 liter

Mark,

The hardtop color is blue with some gray. Very much one-off.

With your BB posts, I'm reminded of #01844's competition heritage. Thanks.

Bring your current 2 liter to the AROC convention next month in Rhode Island and introduce IT to autocrossing! Ha!

Thanks for being such a good Previous Owner.

Richard
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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 02:07 PM
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Thanks Richard,

The top looks great and on the monitor at work I can clearly see that it is a blue gray color. Unfortunately I will not be attending the Rhode Island convention. If I were, I'd spare myself the embarrassment and just spectate at the autocross event.

Enjoy the convention!

Mark
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 07:12 AM
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Regarding the number of hardtops.
My hardtop carries number 1323. My Spider was delivered in Holland early 1962. Maybe Touring started counting from 1000 on. In our chilly country a hardtop is a great asset to any car. I believe that in Northern Europe more than 10% of the Spiders were delivered with the hardtop, but it is only my best guess.
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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 07:04 AM
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Here are a few more Two Liter Touring hard top pictures:
Name:  Two-Liter Crop Hard top.jpg
Views: 401
Size:  34.7 KB

Head Liner
Name:  Alfa Hard top liner.jpg
Views: 439
Size:  22.5 KB

Touring 'HT' Serial Number
Name:  Touring Hard top Number.jpg
Views: 434
Size:  15.8 KB

Sun Visor
Name:  Sun visor and mounting hook.jpg
Views: 402
Size:  19.1 KB

Hard Top Mounting Fasteners
Name:  2L Hard top fasteners.jpg
Views: 402
Size:  88.6 KB

Mark
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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 07:13 AM
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A few more photos of the 'early type' hardtop:
Factory Photo (It is no 'light-weight' top)
Name:  Touring Two Liter Hard Top.jpg
Views: 411
Size:  41.0 KB

Factory Photo
Name:  Touring Two Liter 1960 Hard Top on.jpg
Views: 411
Size:  44.9 KB

A rare convertible top up shot
Name:  Two Liter top up rear.jpg
Views: 407
Size:  61.4 KB


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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 01:37 PM
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Hello Mark,
What a beauty this is.
Are the wheels Boranis or Dayton ? They seem Dayton to me.

I have a question. I do own a 2600 with the elegant hardtop. It is still completely original. Omly new paint some 30 years ago.
All the chrome is still there. However the thin trim in the rubber surrounding the rear window has gone oxidized. In some spots the chrome is completely gone.
I intend to have the very soft brass chrome strips rechromed. But I am very worried about the reassembling of the chrome strips.

Are you aware of any special tool to get the soft brass strips undamaged back into the groove of the rubber ?

Best regards from Holland.
Karel

Last edited by karel deppe; 11-12-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 05:01 PM
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In perfect shape?

This man asked what one was worth. Best answer: " More than what others would want to pay, but less than what you want." If in perfect shape (hard to believe one might be actually perfect), $2,000 might not be too high. But it depends on what time of the year (worth more in Fall than in Spring, for example). Real problem now is that there are several that can be found but great shortage of rear window in original glass (and apparently no way to get any).. I just sold a top needing work and lacking a glass (had badly installed Ford Ranger rear window that had to come out) for $550.00. I have seen one completely restored without a glass for $1,200. I have a hard top with original glass which is second version for two liter. I propose to have plexiglass duplicates made of that glass. At least plexiglass can be carved to fit the earlier version. I have great fear that by making copies my own precious rear glass might get broken. I will not make extra plexiglass windows unless five or more guys wanting them contact me.

However, a "perfect" hard top is for most (perhaps not people in California or Florida) extremely desireable. If you actually have one put it on Ebay with a reserve and watch the price go up. If, on the other hand, if you have found one for sale, be quiet and go see what you can get it for. To get mine I bought a whole car from Switzerland and kept the hard top (and nardi steering wheel, and many other upgrades), but resold the car. But that had to be 30 years ago. Two liters cost much much more now. However, in Seattle I needed a hard top because it went on my daily driver.

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoliterlover View Post
I have grieat fear that by making copies my own precious rear glass might get broken.
Jay, I made a mold of my 2600 hardtop glass. A friend, with some experience with fiberglass molds, helped and we got a good mold, but the experience was freightening. The heat from the curing of the fiberglass caused loud popping noises and I thought my glass had cracked, but all was well. I would not do that again.

By the way, I bought this hardtop about 30 years ago for $1000 and it was shipped from California to south Florida wrapped in a blanket and some cardboard! Amazingly, the glass survived. The shipping was $200. It took many hours of work to get it to fit the contours of my car. You know it is no lightweight, but with the larger rear glass, mine weighs 80 pounds.

Larry Bono

1962 Alfa 2600 Spider, bought in 1970, sold in 2016.
1969 Porsche 912 Coupe owned since new.
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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 07:47 AM
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Hardtop glass and chrome

Gentlemen,

From the discussion over time and watching many pictures in my opinion there are two serious problems with the surviving hardtops.

One is the glass, but if there is a mold already that problem seems solvable. What has your friend done with the mold ? Is it still in existance ? You state that your glass was out and is back in place now. How did you manage to get the chrome trimming back in ? I have taken out one almost straight part out and managed - with professional help - to get it back in. We found this so hard that we decided not to rechrome the trim and leave it as it is. I have given it a thorough polish but the chrome is extremely thin and in some places gone. In spite of the fact that the hardtop has not seen daylight in some 25 years.

Problem area two is the chrome trimming missing.
It seems that on quite a number of hardtops the chrome trimmings in the rear window surround are missing. Has anyone ever tried to remanufacture these ?
Does anyone know how they were made ? I have some ideas but would love to hear if anyone in this forum has expertise in this field and wishes to share that with us.

Last edited by karel deppe; 11-13-2015 at 07:49 AM.
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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 08:00 AM
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I find myself ambivalent regarding hard tops.

I've known several people over the years that used their 2-liters as daily transportation. I'd be surprised if that were the case anymore. I drive mine an average of 1,200 mile per year, and that only in fair weather. I often take mine out on very chilly, but sunny, days with the convertible top down, just as a way of embracing the full impact of the local beauty.

I have an after market fiberglass top that I could restore if I were motivated. I'm not. I doubt I would ever mount it. If I could find a good enough original top, I'd buy it just as part of the life-long project to complete this car as a sort of long-term investment for my grandson. For the same reason I've restored a set of original wheels that I'll never use. I could imagine going to Concorso with an original hard top mounted, but mainly to keep that burning California sun from roasting me on the way over, and put it on display just to show that rarely seen version.

I've worked with Plexi on aircraft, and would not be bothered about duplicating the rear glass. It appears to be simple, rather than compound, curves, so not all that hard to do.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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