A sound investment - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 12-16-2011, 09:46 AM
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A sound investment

The prices of 2000/2600 spider have finally been recognised in the UK now beating the Guilietta Spider. I should have bought the mint 2600 spider I saw for £10,000 in 2008! Mine remains average up 113%. Before anyone comments this assumes the car has just been stored and nothing spent on it. Best rise was to leave the rusty car in the garden 157%, time to sell now Brian!

Classic cars July 2008
Dealer Mint Average Rough
Guilietta spider 55-62 22,500 18,500 9,500 4,500
2000/2600 spider 58-65 17,500 15,000 7,500 3,500


Classic cars Jan 2012
Dealer Mint Average Rough
Guilietta spider 55-62 37,500 30,000 17,500 11,000
2000/2600 spider 58-65 39,500 32,000 16,000 9,000


30 month rise
Guilietta spider 55-62 67% 62% 84% 144%
2000/2600 spider 58-65 126% 113% 113% 157%
Attached Files
File Type: xls Alfa 2600.xls (13.5 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by Redmerlin; 12-16-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:49 AM
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Typical!!!

Ian
I'm obviously the king of bad timing, as you insinuate my car has been stored with no money or effort spent on it so that 157% increase is a good return for doing little (I could get used to this, maybe I need a job in Investment Banking!!!)
However the news I have yet to spring on the AlfaBB is that in the last fortnight I have put up a workshop AND rolled the car in
I will be starting a new thread possibly entitled "restoration but don't hold your breath" or "retirement project 'though I'm only 21" and I too will start that long road to Alfa ownership heaven. So my 157% ROI (return on investment) will rapidly be eroded as I enter the world of negative equity and re-mortgaging!!
Regards to all

Bryan
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:59 AM
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$15,000 purchase hulk
$85,000 restoration
NPV (according to above) $61,000 (usd)

ROI -39%

Ignores storage, insurance, fuel, and on-going repairs.

Never mind. Sun is shining. Going to the airport to watch truly impressive declines in investment value.
__________________
Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:49 PM
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Roi

As we all know there is no ROI for alfa restoration . The sound investor would sell the hulk for £9k or $15k and buy and plant 3 series 3 spiders in the garden for 10 years.

Brian let me know by PM if you need any spares, best of luck

Don if it helps these are prices for RHD cars - double this for LHD?

Ian

Last edited by Redmerlin; 12-16-2011 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:56 PM
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RHD sell for less than LHD? I have had the impression that 102 and 106 cars brought more in Yurrup and Britland. The 15kUS seems to buy a restorable car that does not run. 40k seems to buy a nice enough but not fresh driver. I think there was a recent auction up around 70k for a very nice car, but the memory fades. It's all irrelevant, right? I plan to die before I sell this stuff, and the payoff will be seeing if the grandson gets his driver's license in it. I wonder if they will still allow manually-steered cars by then?
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2011, 09:52 PM
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Once again, it appears subtlety and nuance have been missed entirely. We are not whining, we are commiserating. There is a distinct difference. But then, "heavy metal" never was an art form known for its grasp of inflection and phrasing.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2011, 09:58 PM
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BTW, HM. Back in the 60's and 70's I was the guitarist in a band in Houston that did a lot of gigs alongside of Gibbons and Jimmy Vaughn, among others. Of the two, Gibbons had the greater ability to achieve nuance - but chose not to, and Vaughn had the greatest ability to mimic - but chose to find his own voice. Go figure.

1951 Gibson ES295 bought from a pawn shop in 1973 for $300.12, which was every penny in my pockets at the time. Made a living with that guitar.
__________________
Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:51 AM
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I deleted my post, was in bad mood, missed the sublety. Have always wanted a 2600, never found one I could afford.
DP, I came close several times to trying to buy "fly it home" cool planes for under $10G's, If my Dad [a small aircraft mechanic] were alive, I would have.
Gibbons, eh? One of my guitar heroes. Metal may somewhat devoid of nuance most of the time, but I have played in the symphony, played blues, celtic and other styles too. You are a lucky man to have played then and there.
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The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2011, 10:41 AM
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Yeah, Billy kinda found his schtick and stuck with it. Not much difference in what he was doing in the 60's (with the Moving Sidewalks) and for the next several decades. Just louder and flashier clothes. Gotta admire a guy that found a way to turn one note into a fortune.

Is the pic of you? With the low-res (plus my bad eyes) it looks a lot like Steve Morse.

I'm thrilled to be driving a 102. Never felt much drawn to the 106, as I guess I like the art-deco chrome and lighter weight. If you can make GTV6's stay on the road, you could easily bring a 102 back to life. It's all about rust and bodywork. The mechanicals are bog simple. With this 2300 engine it's faster than any 115 I've ever driven, and handles just fine for those windy drives up to Lake Tahoe. We're at 4,600 above sea level here, so I'm looking forward to the day I take it down to low altitude and gain another 20%+ horsepower. Probably blow up something.

Peace.
__________________
Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2011, 11:44 AM
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Yep, that's me in the pic, mid 80's. I was almost famous!!;-}

I certainly could keep an early car on the road, I have just never found one I could afford to buy. I am bringing in a 65 Giulia next week for floors, rockers, many small patches and paint. Looking forward to it. Rust work is no problem for me, it's the major reason I'm called Heavy Metal.
You should check out my off topic thread, 'HMA, before Alfas'. Been doing metal a long time.
Again, sorry for original rant.
__________________
The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:17 PM
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Location: Amersham . Bucks, UK
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Ebay has 2

Wel Ebay should tell us the price for a good qulaity car - two excellent US cars on a the moment

Item number: 220910459463

Listed only as Alfa Romeo : Spider

Item number: 320815281706

Again - Listed only as Alfa Romeo : Spider


Don

Only in Britland , Aus ,and South Afrika do people drive on the left now . Probably only 40 RHD 2600's left in the world . In Yurrup its the Italians and Germans who are lifting the prices of LHD cars rumoured record is 79,000 euros , say £70,000 or $112,000
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2011, 04:15 PM
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I thought Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore (?) and the All Blacks also drove on the wrong side of the road? Plus the Bahamas (good place for a rust-prone convertible) and the British islands of the Caribbean. Of course, in Argentina everyone thinks they are the reincarnation of Fangio, so drive on either side of the road based upon where the next apex is located. RHD wouldn't hurt them.

I can imagine more opportune times of the year to sell a thoroughly discretionary car than leading into Christmas. Methinks one or both of these will not make reserve and end up being relisted in the new year.
__________________
Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:47 AM
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Location: spain
Posts: 55
I stopped adding the bills for the restoration works in my car shortly after it started (as a spanish proverb says: "ignorant people live happier lives").

As for most people here, the market prices for these cars still need to go way up before I recover my investment, but had I followed my banker's advice and put the money in the stock market, I would now have a similar ROI (-30%-50%) and no smile in my face on the sunny weekends (when I drive the car)
__________________
Francisco (Spain)

'74 GTV 2000
'59 2000 touring spider
There is a very fine line between ‘hobby’ and ‘mental illness.’
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2011, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
RHD sell for less than LHD? I have had the impression that 102 and 106 cars brought more in Yurrup and Britland. The 15kUS seems to buy a restorable car that does not run. 40k seems to buy a nice enough but not fresh driver. I think there was a recent auction up around 70k for a very nice car, but the memory fades. It's all irrelevant, right? I plan to die before I sell this stuff, and the payoff will be seeing if the grandson gets his driver's license in it. I wonder if they will still allow manually-steered cars by then?
Don,

I believe you were thinking of this car:

1961 Alfa Romeo 2000 Spider by Touring

Their asking price was over $72K. Must have recently sold. Promising figure.

- Len
__________________
Len Jacko (Cleveland, OH): '58 Spider Normale, Spider Veloce (almost done) and Sprint Veloce, '60 Spider 2000 Touring (my favorite) and '61 Spider Normale.
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