10-26-2009, 03:01 PM
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steeringbox 102 and 106
Hi All,
Does somebody know what is the difference of steeringbox 102.00.23.002.02 and 102.00.23.002.00 ?
in the partbook housing , shaft(steering arm ) and shaft ( worm screw )
have different 00 and 02 numbers
rgds Franco
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10-26-2009, 05:08 PM
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At a guess ... one is for left hand drive and the other is for right hand drive?
I was talking to a guy last week who has finally given up his search for a brand new worm and roller for his RHD 2600 Spider, and might be planning to commission some new ones. Big bucks.
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10-26-2009, 05:50 PM
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am I mis-informed or does AFRA and either OKP or Haeckner offer rebuild kits with those 2 parts?
David
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74 GTV
64 2600 Spider
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10-30-2009, 05:24 PM
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steering box 102 106 RIO
I have 3 GEMMER steeringboxes from 102 and or 106 serie
1: turns 5,25 x
2: turns 4 x
3: turns 3,75 x
and one of 2300 RIO
1: turns 4,5 x
rgds Franco
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10-31-2009, 10:14 PM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce
Hi All,
Does somebody know what is the difference of steeringbox 102.00.23.002.02 and 102.00.23.002.00 ?
in the partbook housing , shaft(steering arm ) and shaft ( worm screw )
have different 00 and 02 numbers
rgds Franco
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I don't think Alfa Romeo released any specific information that would give us a definitive answer about what the exact differences about these steering boxes might have been (gear ratio, strength, dimensions, tolerances, hardness of components, manufacturing techniques and/or costs). Here’s what I found in various pieces of Alfa documentation:
The 102 parts manual generally refers to 102.00.23.002.02 but mentions on p.204:
Quote:
"Steering box 102.00.23.002.00 has also been fitted to a certain number of Sedan cars. In such cases, the steering box may be replaced with either 102.00.23.002.00 or 102.00.23.002.02.
To eliminate the risk of making mistakes when fitting individual replacement parts, we list below the chassis numbers to which steering box 102.00.23.002.00 has been fitted."
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There is an additional note on p.205:
Quote:
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"For greater clarity it is pointed out that the steering box fitted to the Sedan cars listed above have no particular distinguishing mark, while the new steering boxes have a yellow mark on the bottom cover plate."
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Both the 102 and 106 parts catalogs state that the steering boxes are equivalent and interchangeable as complete units. The fact that the parts catalogs document that Alfa Romeo kept records by chassis number about what steering box went into what 102 or 106 car seems to indicate that the allocation of steering box types was important enough to keep track of.
Initially, reading the 102 parts catalog, I thought the allocation might have been by car model (Sedan vs. Spider/Sprint), possibly because of technical characteristics (e.g. the higher weight of Sedan or the higher speed of Spider/Sprint creating a preference for one or the other type of steering box) but that doesn’t make sense when comparing the numbers in the 106 manual: All 106 Sedans were fitted with 102.00.23.002.02 steering boxes. So, we can rule out that the allocation was by car model.
According to both the old and new (1 vs 2 volume) 106 parts catalogs it appears that, right from the beginning of the production of 106 cars, both types of steering boxes were used on Sprint and Spiders and these manuals contain lists of chassis numbers for both types of steering boxes. There is a possibility that the steering box allocation for 106 Spiders and Sprints may have had something to do with sales destination, e.g. to comply with laws or specific requirements of a country. If this was the case, the Alfa sales records could be used to establish such a correlation (but I, for one, will not ask the Centro Documentazione to look through the chassis numbers for confirmation). Another possibility was allocation by assembly location, but there is no public information to support that and the mixed allocation among model lines doesn’t seem to support it.
In my opinion, the most likely explanation is an “end of life” situation in the production life cycle of the steering boxes. Page 205 of the 102 parts catalog (quoted above) refers to yellow color markings on the “new” steering box 102.00.23.002.02. Hence, we can assume 102.00.23.002.00 was an “old” or “older” steering box. Both version of the 106 parts catalog mention that the steering box with parts number 102.00.23.002.00 was used up to Spider chassis number 192125 and Sprint chassis number 822196, thereafter only the “new” steering box with parts number 102.00.23.002.02 was used. According to the production numbers listed in Fusi’s book, this transition probably happened in early to mid 1963.
Although one might argue that the change happened with a Series 1 to Series 2 transition in 106 Spiders (“old” steering boxes up to chassis number 192125 while Series 2 cars start at chassis number 192351), I think this is mere coincidence because such a case cannot be made for Sprints, where “old” steering boxes were used up to chassis number 822196 but Series 2 cars start at chassis number 825101 (about 3’000 cars later).
When I checked the chassis numbers for 102 Sedans, I found that about 417 of the first 538 chassis numbers listed had the “old” 102.00.23.002.00 steering boxes. Fusi’s production numbers indicate that chassis number 538 was produced in early 1959. Why an “old” steering box was phased out in 1959 and then re-introduced for the 106 production in 1962-63 (about 1059 “old” boxes on 106 Spider and about 2104 “old” boxes on 106 Sprint) is unclear. Maybe cost was an issue? I guess we’ll never know.
Unfortunately, the 106 parts catalog only lists Gemmer parts numbers for the "new" steering box, so we cannot compare on an item-by-item basis which parts are the same. The whole issue raises some questions about what replacement worm and roller sets are being offered: Are they for the old or for the new steering box, and/or does it really matter? I'm afraid the answer to this question is somewhat unsatisfactory: If this is there is no choice, there is no choice and one has to go with what is available.
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (reassembly in progress)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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11-01-2009, 04:36 AM
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wow....! just what we need another parts mystery, as if we don't have enough confusion on some componenets already.....
are there any differences in physical appearance that can be seen from top side?
I suppose we could ask both AFRA and OKP exactly what their rebuild kits contain and for what they are specified for?
David
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74 GTV
64 2600 Spider
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11-01-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D&SW
wow....! just what we need another parts mystery, as if we don't have enough confusion on some componenets already.....
are there any differences in physical appearance that can be seen from top side?
I suppose we could ask both AFRA and OKP exactly what their rebuild kits contain and for what they are specified for?
David
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BTW: I checked the individual parts numbers and the only difference between the two boxes are the numbers for worm and roller and, interestingly, the main casing of the old box (which all have 102.00.23.002.00/xx numbers. Everything else (seals, shafts, spacers, bearings, etc.) has 102.00.23.002.02/xx numbers -- even on the old box.
So, there shoudln't be any issues arising from repair kits other than the possibility of a changed gear ratio (as Franco pointed out with the difference in the number of turns on various boxes).
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (reassembly in progress)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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11-01-2009, 04:12 PM
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HI All,
there are any small differences in physical appearance that can be seen
I will post some pictures of the 2 different steering boxes
Rgds Franco
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11-06-2009, 04:00 PM
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102 106 gemmer steeringbox pictures
see pictures for the difference in the iron cast
rgds Franco
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11-06-2009, 04:30 PM
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So, which is which?
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (reassembly in progress)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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11-06-2009, 04:54 PM
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I don't know...........
there are no 102 or 106 numbers on the boxes
rgds Franco
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11-06-2009, 06:13 PM
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I see (hence this thread). Did you find a yellow paint marker on the bottom of one of them?
Does anybody else have pictures of steering boxes with the yellow marker for comparison?
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (reassembly in progress)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
Last edited by tubut; 11-06-2009 at 06:15 PM.
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11-07-2009, 01:54 AM
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yellow marker
see picture on this NOS steeringbox
stamped 4-66
so it can only be from 2600 serie
this box is the same as one of the others
rgds Franco
Last edited by franco-veloce; 11-11-2009 at 03:45 PM.
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11-07-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce
see picture on this NOS steeringbox
this box is the same as one of the others
rgds Franco
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__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (reassembly in progress)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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