Operation "save a sprint" - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 10-11-2009, 03:28 PM
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Operation "save a sprint"

To celebrate 100 years of Alfa romeo, I have bought a 2600 sprint( to go with my Spider)

Well as the picture below and ignoring shouts of “money pit” from Mr Goose , I intend to get it road worthy again – not restore it just running.

The good news

1. The engine had a £4,500 rebuild 10 years ago and has only done 2,000 miles since
2. All the brake parts have been fully overhauled – all pistons , slave , master cylinder . servo etc.
3. Previously owned and loved by Eric Harrison - many new bits andfull history
4. Only two rust areas end of drivers side cill (rocker?) and rear floor two small holes

The strange news , the previous owner attempted to fit an Alfa V6 and has modified the gearbox housing to fit – so I now need a replacement bellhousing. Anyone want to buy a 2600 gearbox converted to fit to a V6

The bad news

1. Alll the brake parts are in a box not on the car
2. all the front lights trim etc are in a box
3. A few bits have been lost over time
4. Engine doesn't turn

So why am I posting this – hopefully to provide some light amusement for other bb members as I try to restore the car . Also to look for sources for the missing bits as I need them.

Some spares to trade

I have about 7 side spears
An alfa centre grill
a full interior in blue or red - ie all seats front and rear door cards etc

Pictures attached

Wish me luck

Ian
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Last edited by Redmerlin; 12-15-2010 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:22 PM
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Are your spares for trade for a Sprint or Spider?

Thx,
Don
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Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:51 AM
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"New" sprint

Ian
Well done on your purchase. I assume you are taking on from Eric all his "duties". I would be interested to know if you are planning a meeting or whatever for the Uk 2600 group. Will that be done through the 2600 Uk site?
Regarding your sprint, when I acquired my spider the previous owner had "broken" (parted out) a sprint to assist with his restoration so I have a few sprint specific parts. not even sure what they are at present, but if you are in no hurry I will sort through them and see what is not needed for my rebuild.
Regards
Bryan
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:51 AM
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Answers to questions

Don - all spares listed are sprint

Bryan

The car is Eric's old car !

I'll give you a call re spares/Uk meetings - I have the UK members list from Eric

Uk web site is currently down - I'm trying to find out why

cheers

Ian
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:01 PM
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Smile Have good bellhousing to trade

Ian, It's, as they say, a long long way -- to Tippararey (sp?) -- or anywhere in England from Seattle. However, congratulations, on your new car. I do believe you can restore it for a few paltry thousand Quid (hopefully not tens of thousands). But you mention some strange additional parts as modified, undesired and disposable. I am interested in your 2600 bell housing that was converted to fit on a v6. I would like to have it. In turn I have for you both a bell housing for a 2600 AND the drive-line parts (Originallly from a 2600 spider but conceivably same size as sprint because I know they are too short for sedan). Want to trade? What else do you need? Might as well be shot for a lion as shot for a lamb if the shot involves a barrage all the way to England. Jay
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[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="jay@alfanut.com"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:35 AM
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Converted bellhousing

Jay

I wasn't expecting any interest in the bell-housing

Who would want to put a v6 in a 2600 I thought - well clearly there are now atleast 2 people!

The modification to the bell-housing has been professionally done by an Alfa racing specialist and engine builder. It has been cut and then the V6 mating piece welded back on - I can send photos if you are interested. It includes a new modified V6 clutch plate and housing ready to bolt onto the V6. It has been trial assembled but never run in a car.

The previous owner stopped the project when he realised the sump of the V6 would go straight through the front cross-member and costs to modify the cross-member were too high .

I don't think this approach will work as if you cut the front cross -member a 2600 will fold in half! and thats when it was new.

It maybe be possible to fit a 2600 type sump under the V6 and install a long oil pick-up .

Happy to talk about a swap - I would need the bell housing including clutch release arm and release bearing. plus the rear prop shaft section . What may kill this cunning plan is shipping costs.

I am not sure if the prop shafts are the same Sprint to Spider , I know Reudi answered this point excellently in a seperate post somewhere - i'll have a look

Send me a pm with what you have a got and an estimate of shipping costs and I'll do the same

rgds

Ian
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:32 AM
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The finished article

I have found a couple of pictures of what my saved sprint should look like - just add water as they say!
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Old 10-20-2009, 12:38 PM
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"Just add water"

Ian
Do you have a special formula for the water you add to Alfa projects? It's just that I think my Alfa has seen some non special water which has had the effect of converting the steel panels to ferrous oxide!
Regards
Bryan
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmerlin View Post
I have found a couple of pictures of what my saved sprint should look like - just add water as they say!
I believe the original recipe is: Add water and cash as needed. Stir until firm. Sprinkle with curse words to taste.
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'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).

Last edited by tubut; 10-20-2009 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:37 AM
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Price for the Sprint ?
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:57 AM
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Price for sprint

Touring 63

You may have mis-understood. My car is currently as the pictures on post one of this thread - and is not for sale.

If you are interested in buying a sprint try this one

1964 Alfa Romeo 2600, classic cars for sale

Last edited by Redmerlin; 05-06-2011 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:28 PM
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Just keep looking at those glossy pictures Ian...I have a very poor Bond Equipe in the process of restoration, a restored photo for my screen saver gives me comfort on a regular basis.

Sprints are such handsome cars...a guy several streets away from my parents has two sitting in his shed, which used to be daily drivers. I lusted after them for years. They're (generally) such inexpensive cars on the classic market here in Australia, I'd love to buy one, but they are incredibly rare (although some were assembled by Lightburn right here in Adelaide...where are they?). Unfortunately, their relatively low value means all manner of crimes have been performed on them...fitted with V8's, chopped into Spiders (actual Spiders were never sold here), kg's of 'Bondo' stuffed into every hole, it's no wonder they've all gone.

Your car looks very 'honest', I have no doubts you'll be posting your own glossy photo's here soon. Good luck!

Duane
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:00 PM
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Step 1 The gearbox

Probably the biggest challenge of the lot this - what I got with the car is in picture 1 below ( Box 1) - a 2600 gearbox with a modified bellhousing to fit a V6)

Plus picture 2 a box of bits - the previous " restorer" had stripped the box and declared it US because the sychros are shot and they are the old type that you can't get anymore. Nb it worked fine according the previous owner - Eric of 2600 owners club,


So plan B I have a spare 2600 gearbox (Box 2) - I'll fit this one instead? Unfortunately not, its been stored for 20 plus years. When I pick it up oil pours from the input shaft into the bellhousing. No problem I'll change the oil seal . When I remove the bellhousing and seal I find a large piece of swarf - aluminium about a inch long sticking out of the seal . I then remove the drain plug . The magnet is thick with metal. Looks like a second-hand terminally dead gearbox.


So on to plan C

What have I got in the shed - A good box from a mid seventies 2 litre (Box 3)

So - As I am told on many threads on the 2600 BB , the internals of all boxes are the same from 2600 up to the last mid eighties spider,

Simple then

Strip Box 1 , put the internals in from Box 3 add the input shaft and bellhousing from Box 2 and job done!

A couple of questions – if anybody can help

1. My gearbox rebuilding skills are limited to me and a range of spanners. Will the main shaft and lay shaft from the later box lift straight in to a 2600 box. As I don’t have the skills or tools to strip a shaft down.

2. Does anyone know the oil seal sizes on a 2600 box – input and output?

Last picture Box 2 bellhousing fitting new silent blocks – note they have retaining bolts on a 2600
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:37 PM
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DON'T PANIC. Piece of cake!

Greetings and Hello, Red Merlin of 2600 sprint restoration fame in merry old England! I admire and applaud your desire to actually turn nuts and bolts on your own project. You can do it!!! Forgive me for a completely politically incorrect story my first mentor told me the first time I hesitated when I had to attempt something new (for me) on my first Alfa years and years ago, "You just have to assume the right attitude of superiority", he said. "Look at your self. You're smart, well educated, and well fed. Just think, the guy who put that Alfa together couldn't even speak English". It struck me a such a stupid nonsensical comment I almost split my sides laughing. What difference did that make when I couldn't speak his Italian either. But since then whenever I have to tackle any new problem on any of my cars I can't help recalling that comment of my now long gone friend and smiling. That was fifty years or so ago.

Anyway, relax! Just dive in. Transmissions are not all that difficult, and I am glad you made it clear you were dealing with a MID SEVENTIES 2000 BOX (i.e. NOT a two liter, 102 series box which has different number of teeth in input shaft and unworkable except by using whole box and a Giulietta output flange to fit greater number of splines and still have three bolts instead of regular four bolt of two liter). YES, the switch is simple and I expect all the parts of the "newer" box will be perfect (but do check the teeth, the wear, etc), so: (1) Removing rear nuts off tail shafts might take a "rattlegun" air wrench on both your 2600 box and also the new donor box. (2) Remove the rear tower sections on each by removing the nuts to rear, putting the shift mechanism into third gear to free it from the shift rail, and lifting it up as you remove it. (3) Take apart the clam shells -- held together with bolts and nuts only. (4) Look carefully and compare the pieces inside of both. VIOLA! The guts from the mid seventies box fits right in place of the 2600 guts. Might have to loosen the fork that holds fifth and reverse to fit them together.

HOWEVER, (4) The mid seventies box is equipped with Moly synchros instead of the old type, so you must make the one on the 2600 input shaft conform (might also check condition of the bearing) -- but then rejoice because you can now forget the need to use Dentax 90 as was necessary in the old boxes. (5) On reassembly be sure to use the 2600 end piece (the one that goes through the real seal and has the three arms for the bolts on the guibo (i.e. metalastic or rubber donut -- whatever term you use) on the new replacement innards so the speedo drive for the 2600 will match the pickup in the shift tower. Don't mix and match these if you want your speedometer to actually give you some proximity of the correct mph or kph (I believe that all have a built in 10% optimistic factor anyway). Besides, if you mismatch the mid seventies speedo driver with the 2600 pick up in the shift tower (or vice versa) you probably end up galling the softer gear and lose your speedo drive entirely. And if you use the end drive of the newer box with the shift tower of the new box too, the speedo will work but be way off because of rear end ratios and tire size.

So, you can do it!!! Use some good sealant on the surfaces to avoid leaks. Not rocket science.

Size of seals: Input in bell housing is standard Alfa # 2340.34361D and Output in shift tower standard Alfa # 2340.34406D from two liter parts book. (But these seals are consistent for all the boxes, so numbers for cars such as spiders from 1967 through 1993 fit. Sorry I can't recall for the moment the actual metric sizes, but if you take yours out any good bearing shop can measure yours and give you equivalents).

Okay, once you put the silent blocks in, use a bolt to screw just into the block to hold it, but put a lock nut on the bolt to jam it fast onto the bellhousing.

P.S, I am still interested in the your inventive adoptive but non suitable bellhousing to fit the old five speed 2600 (or two liter) tranny to the rear of a v-6 alfa engine. I realize that using the v-6 in a 2600 or two liter might require cutting the front cross member, bit I wouldn't be using the old style front suspension in the wild idea I am dreaming up. Once you have everything out of it, let me know your price. And I have a good 2600 driveline for a spider in exchange -- but you have to verify if the length is right for a sprint. I believe it is, but I want you to verify for yourself. Perhaps someone on the BB can verify one way or other. Jay in Seattle.
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[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="jay@alfanut.com"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2009, 09:51 AM
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i have rear section of drive shaft from 2000 spider 1959 you can have for cost of shipping from usa. glad to see another 2000/2600 saved from scrapping. randy
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