Operation "save a sprint" - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #46 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2010, 03:53 PM
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2600 sprint race car

All finished yours for 50,000 Euro's

racecarsdirect.com (Race Cars For Sale) Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint

All the dynamics has been completely overhauled at beginning of 2007 and is completely mounted on Uniball for a better drive accuracy!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2010, 03:38 PM
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Engine stripped down

Well I've finally got to stripping the engine and the news is not good

The small end (rod) bearing on No 6 cylinder has welded itself to the crank shaft. The oil way to the bearing is blocked with crud and the bearing has overheated. A common problem I understand when engines are rebuilt the oilways aren't cleaned out properly and the end result is a cooked bearing.

He Ho even more frustrating to find that to take the crank out you have to remove the head - a pity cos there is nothing wrong with the top end - on a later 2 litre this is possible - not on the2600 because of a guide for the upper chain. Anyway this will make retapping the the spark plug holes easier.

Picture attached - rebuild to follow
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2010, 03:47 PM
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A warning to anyone having an engine rebuilt

I have now fully stripped the engine including removing the crankshaft .
The main bearings are in useable condition , but all the big end bearings are badly scored , as I said No 6 had seized , No 1 wasn't far behind. it looks like the crank journals have been heavily reground and filled the crankshaft oil-ways

Is this unique - No - I have been lucky to find another block with good crank - the guy I bought it from had a beautiful white spider - he bought it with a fully rebuilt engine - from a highly reputable company. He fitted new triple dellortos to a de-siamised inlet . The car started first time when he tried ,it ran like a Swiss watch , idled at 600 rpm so quiet you could hardly hear it. How far did he manage to drive it for - 60 miles then you've guessed it is seized on No 6 big end - blocked oil way feed .

This is something Jay has mentioned many times - if you have a crank reground make sure the oil way plugs on the crankshaft are removed and the oilways are fully cleaned out

If not the result will be as above.

So anyway better news I now have 3 blocks to work with

No1 - fully rebuilt with a seized No 6 big end and probably wrecked crank. but excellent head, cylinder liners as new ( see photo) , same for pistons with new rings inlcuding modern oil control rings

No2 - Stripped and appears clean and healthy , except for a few broken rings

No 3 - Badly stored for years with one missing liner and no pistons , but what looks like a good crank.

From the above I believe I can make two good engines - one for the spider and one for the sprint. The engine that seized will be cleaned and cleaned again , inlcuding the oil cooler - apparently this is the third time this one has seized/blown up!

Please PM me if you have any big end bearings for sale or know of a source – I don’t know what size yet.

On we go .
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2010, 05:13 PM
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I believe OKP keeps main bearings is stock (see here).
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2010, 03:53 PM
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Engine block mayhem

In the attached picture you will see the three blocks I have to work with

1. On stand engine from Sprint with seized No 6 big end.
2. Engine in car boot good 50,000 mile engine that has been stored for at least 20 years
3. Engine on ground by sprint old block with good crank

Next steps – I have taken the crank out of No2 and all bearing shells look good.

Block will go off to machine shop to have the bores honed .

Crank will be cleaned up – oil way plugs replaced.

Then off to a professional to re-assemble using plasti-gauge etc

Second photo another good reason not to restart an old engine without stripping the engine first – crank is very rusty
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2010, 04:02 PM
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Clutch reference numbers

I have been offered a clutch cover plate for a 2600 berlina

Reference is Borg & Beck HA 1012

The only refernce I have which is the UK owners club spares list gives Borg & Beck HA 1005

Can anyone confirm which is correct?

Thankyou
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 01:00 AM
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OSAS is not dead

Well this is a project which it would be easy to give-in and break the car - but I shall persevere. . I continue to attempt a budget rebuild.

This stalled at the price of main and rod shells not much change out of $700 if you use the German suppliers

I have found alternatives which would need modifying to fit or King Bearings have quoted cheaper. However I have been lucky to find enough NOS bearings to rebuild two engines so the project continues.

The crank is back in - including drilling out oil-way plugs and replacing with tapped plugs . All oil ways washed and cleaned out - another $400 gone but better than having to start the rebuild again later.

Crank is still standard and all journals measure to between 1 and 2 thou clearance - confirmed by plastigauge checks as attached photo.

One question Jay? the manual states " install crankshaft and rear oil deflector" or something similar.
I have dismantled 3 engines and not found any oil deflectors, although I can see where one might be fitted . Has anyone got a photo of this.

Also , while searching for engine bits I have commenced manufacture of a $10 dashboard - photos to follow

Thanks
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Last edited by Redmerlin; 05-06-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 02:16 AM
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Smile Looking Good!

Your work looks very well done, Ian. Good work means that in the future you will be able to run your beautiful car for enough years to enjoy it. However, in the manual they assume one just continues to assemble to the very end once started and doesn't want to have to partly disassemble later to put other pieces in. This is one such place. They tell you to be careful now to install the two "C" shaped pieces on the inside of the back of the crank through which the bolts must also go which later hold the flywheel on. The parts book refers to the two pieces as "Half oil-seal plates" (you need two and the eight special bolts). See the picture. You can't get them and the bolts in there when the rear cap main is in place. Lots of us are watching and cheering you on. It does my heart good to see things done so well. Jay
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[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="jay@alfanut.com"], seriously Alfa diseased and ancient OLD Two Liter Lover, put together Seattle area's Northwest Alfa Romeo Club in 1965, and still feebly tries to tend a teeny sacred flame to his serpent mistress in the [B]ALFA G'RAJ MAHAL[/B], a home garage temple with more Alfa cars and parts than he dare list because of the disapproval of his shamed and chagrined family. (425) 641-2600.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:43 AM
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"Half oil-seal plates"

Jay

Thanks – obvious now you have explained it . My engine is a 6 cylinder 106 – different of course to the 102 . The two half moon plates on the 106 have threaded holes in them and are secured by bolts from the flywheel side, which means you have to use studs or old pencils to keep them in place while fitting the flywheel . I think I can assemble without extracting the crankshaft again..

Onwards and up wards

N.b I’ve still got the V6 to 2600 gearbox conversion bellhousing

Cheers

Ian
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:55 AM
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It may be a matter of scale, but if you are using the same "Plastiguage" that I use, then you have much LESS than 1 - 2 thou clearance. I'm sure you have the matching scale to compare against your plastigage squash, but I was immediately struck by how large your indicator spots are.
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Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 08:10 AM
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Scale as photo

My spots sit at about 1.5 thou ( photo not my crank)
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2010, 01:33 PM
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Your picture confirms the 2 thou measurement. The earlier picture (at least on my computer) shows a big red round shape, not the long thin shape in the immediately preceding picture.
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
1971 Alfa Montreal (see above comment regarding rationality)

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:30 AM
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Oops

Don , sorry if I have confused you the second picture is one I took from the internet to show the plastigauge card I used and is not my crankshaft. Earlier photo is my crank with the larger pink circles - which measured between 1 and 2 thou. Crank is now in ( with the oil-seal plates!) and turns very sweetly - I am impressed by how every component is numbered to the engine and for position . This is the same on all three blocks I have dismantled and suggests it was done at the factory.

Ian
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2010, 01:49 PM
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further upwards

Big end /rod bearing No1 installed tonight - similar result to main bearings

Large red blob from plastigauge - about 1.5 thou again

The crank I have must be from a fairly low mileage engine - the journals were just polished and I am fitting std bearings.

As poor picture attached

Just out of interest Engine number is AR00601*00129* is this the 129th 2600 engine made?

Begining to enjoy this now - crank still turns freely .
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Last edited by Redmerlin; 07-06-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmerlin View Post
Just out of interest Engine number is AR00601*00129* is this the 129th 2600 engine made?
Yes and no. It is certainly and early engine number but we don't know if they were assembled in sequence or as batches that have been stored for a while (similar to chassis numbers not being produced in sequence).
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, resto project)
Maintainer of a 2600 SZ register (not the Dutch one).
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