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post #61 of 770 (permalink) Old 01-27-2010, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Patrick,

Thanks for the pics. Some of those will definitely help during reassembly. I took a ton of pics during my tear-down, loaded them onto my desk top, erased my camera disk, then a few days later had to re-initiate my mirror-raid hard drives. Yep, did it wrong and erased all my tear-down pics. Most of it is simple and intuitive, but a few under-dash and under-hood pics are likely to come in handy.

I got my harness from Lionel, and very impressed with both the quality and service. I suspect there are subtle differences from one car to the next, and I like having mine duplicated precisely. Of course, that assumes I can figure out how to stuff it back where it goes, but it's not like I'm in a hurry.

Thanks again for the pics. More are always appreciated.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #62 of 770 (permalink) Old 01-27-2010, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Patrick,

BTW, happy to get connected with the Texas guy. I'm a native of the Lone Star State, and was the parts manager for an Alfa dealer in the early 70's. I had a 102 back then as well, and got to know several owners. Group therapy and sympathy, I guess.

I seem to recall a Patrick Hung at my high school in Houston. That you?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #63 of 770 (permalink) Old 01-27-2010, 10:07 PM
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Don,

I went to HS in San Jose, CA!

Having googled my own name, I showed up on the fifth page or so on the search results; the first four pages were taken up by some Stanford University academic with the same name who published this and that, and gave papers at conferences from Alaska to Papua New Guinea; this may be your long-lost pal! He might tell you that all Alfas are losing propositions, rationally speaking, and he'd be right.

I'll send you my customer's contact info via e-mail tomorrow, after obtaining his permission.

Patrick Hung
'59 Sprint Veloce * '63 Giulia Spider * '65 Giulia Ti * '67 GT 1300 Junior



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post #64 of 770 (permalink) Old 01-28-2010, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Below is a nice pic I received from Daniele in Holland. He has an astonishing and supposedly unrestored car for sale for a price I wish we could all hope for.

His picture is exactly what I recall from my 1959 102 that I had back in the early 70's. The bottom is a thin padded cushion, not really a seat. Anyone have an extra one of these I can use to either restore or copy?
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #65 of 770 (permalink) Old 01-28-2010, 01:55 PM
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interior rear

Hi All,

bottom and rearpart are original not divided in 3 parts

rgds Franco
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post #66 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Body shop report

Taking a break from the Re-O struggles for a moment... It seems like Matt has never done a 102, although that can't really be the case, right? Anyway, I paid a visit to the body shop today, and they forge forward. A few pics below showing the areas of interest.

We're going to imbed a couple of nuts behind the inner sill wall for seat belts. I see no evidence this car ever had any.

The front lower valence is going to take some hours to straighten. Anyone ever use the item from Erik in Belgium? His "catalog" page didn't seem to indicate what I needed, but maybe it will.

We've done serious rust repair and preventative. I doubt it will reoccur in my lifetime, or hopefully my grandson's. I wonder if someday he'll discover this thread and find out this exercise was intended to, ahem, improve his odds during his high-school senior prom? You're welcome.

Can someone post a picture of the lower front "corners" of the car? We're rebuilding the front wheel-arch, and have no pattern for where it curves down to join the cross-piece under the nose. A picture shooting up at it, in order to get the bottom view would be best, although several pics would be even better. Thanks in advance.

We're about to fit up the doors, hood, and trunk. As we like to say in the airplane restoration business, "90% done, with only 90% yet to go".
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #67 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 03:14 PM
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rocker and air vents

Hi Don,

FYI

the steel welded to inside of the rocker \ _]

isn't original and also the 102 spider has no air vents holes in the front

rgds Franco
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Last edited by franco-veloce; 02-03-2010 at 03:35 PM.
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post #68 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 03:33 PM
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You will need to weld your seatbelt nuts to a thick plate to distribute the load if you want them to be legal. The size of this plate will be in some legal document somewhere ... maybe look up race car requirements, etc.

Last thing you want is for some road registration dude to want proof that it has been done properly ... thus take photos, etc.
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #69 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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"steel welded to inside of rocker"

Franco,

Thanks for the pictures showing no air-inlets. This may make my problem easier, although this sure looks to be original on this car. I seem to recall having the same holes in my previous 59.

What do you mean by your comment "steel welded to inside of rocker"?

Thanks,

Don


Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
Hi Don,

FYI

the steel welded to inside of the rocker \ _]

isn't original and also the 102 spider has no air vents holes in the front

rgds Franco

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #70 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Pete,
I question the overall crash-worthiness of these cars in the best of circumstances, and "legal" has a rather broad interpretation here in northern Nevada. We intend to weld a nice doubling plate to distribute the load, as you note, but whether it is legal or not is unlikely to ever be questioned. We don't even have safety inspections or smog inspections in this part of Nevada. Run whatcha brung.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #71 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 03:49 PM
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pictures rocker

on your pictures 3 and 4 is a welded a steel plate to the rocker _] , on my picture 1 which is original there is none

rgds Franco
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Last edited by franco-veloce; 02-03-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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post #72 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 05:23 PM
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I bought my seatbelts from a place in MD Andover Restraints (they just supply seatbelts..... don't want some of you to get over-excited.... lol)

They specialize in them....If I remember correctly they supply either oversize "washers" for seatbelt eye-bolts or "reinforcement plates"- small plate of steel with a welded-in nut to secure the eyebolt

check out Seat Belts For Domestic And Imported Cars And Trucks-Andover Restraints,Inc

their ready-made stuff is pretty cheap and easier than re-inventing. supposedly its all engineered to meet safety standards....

David

'74 GTV, '64 2600 Spider
www.Alfa-Owners.org

Last edited by D&SW; 02-03-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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post #73 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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Sill structure

Franco,

It's hard to say what is "original" in this case, and I'm not sure it matters. When you look at Erik's pictures from Belgium, it appears that the sill is 4 individual pieces: the inner piece that can be seen from inside the car, the piece with the holes in it, a "zee" shaped piece that is welded between the above two pieces, and the outer sill or what we call "rocker panel". The structure shown in Erik's pictures is exactly what we discovered inside my sills. The "zee" shaped piece is what bridges the gap along the bottom, and as it is a thinner cross section it tends to rust first. We are repairing its loss with an external doubler that is not shown in my pictures. It will create the same strength without requiring the complete disassembly of the most important part of the car.

I believe your sill is also a welded up composite of 3 inner components and the outer "rocker panel". Their welds could be pretty good back then and not instantly recognizable under coatings and corrosion.

You saved me a ton of work by pointing out the incorrect lower air openings. Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
on your pictures 3 and 4 is a welded a steel plate to the rocker _] , on my picture 1 which is original there is none

rgds Franco

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #74 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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lower openings on 2000 / 2600 front

Franco,

Here is a pic of someone's 2600 showing the lower openings. My car does not appear to have had any repair in this area, so I am wondering if there was some variability in this feature? Mine is serial number 77, so is an early one, in spite of being registered in the US as a 62 model. My openings certainly look the same as the 2600 picture below.

Don


Quote:
Originally Posted by franco-veloce View Post
Hi Don,

FYI

the steel welded to inside of the rocker \ _]

isn't original and also the 102 spider has no air vents holes in the front

rgds Franco
Attached Images
 

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
DPeterson3 is offline  
post #75 of 770 (permalink) Old 02-28-2010, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Spending like a drunken sailor

I made the mistake of STARTING to add up what this is costing me. Bad idea.

Meanwhile, the body shop was supposed to send me a weekly statement so I could always have a running total of where we were. They didn't. I'm happy with their work, and can't complain about the hours X rate, but it appears the bodywork through paint is going to cost me about 17k - 20k MORE than I budgeted. Sigh. My plans for a leather interior may be evaporating. I've been buying ahead of the project so all the stuff is sitting here awaiting reassembly. I may have to slow the pace a bit, although in reality that doesn't change the end cost, just how soon I get to drive the car.

Sorry for the rant. It needed out, and I didn't want to yell at the boy or kick the dog. Not that I would do either, but metaphorically speaking....

Argh.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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