Go Back   Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums > Alfa Romeo Technical Forums > 164 & 168 (1991-1995)


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:03 PM
Jim Burnette Jim Burnette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 32
Unhappy A/C & heater blower just stopped

I have a 1991 164 base model with about 114,000 miles. I have never had a problem with the blower fan for the heater & A/C but today without any symptoms before hand I was cruising down the highway with the A/C going full blast and suddenly the fan just stopped. When I try turning the A/C on again the lights come on and in Auto the fan lights slowly go from 1 to 4 but the fan is not blowing. Is there a fuse that I don't know about? I have tried looking under the dash and the 40 amp fuse behind the false firewall looks good. Has the motor just died? I would think if it were the motor it would have maybe given some symptoms or died a little less suddenly, but maybe I am wrong.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Jim Burnette; 07-01-2008 at 04:04 PM. Reason: None
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:07 PM
Alfisto Steve Alfisto Steve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 7,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Burnette View Post
I have a 1991 164 base model with about 114,000 miles. I have never had a problem with the blower fan for the heater & A/C but today without any symptoms before hand I was cruising down the highway with the A/C going full blast and suddenly the fan just stopped. When I try turning the A/C on again the lights come on and in Auto the fan lights slowly go from 1 to 4 but the fan is not blowing. Is there a fuse that I don't know about? I have tried looking under the dash and the 40 amp fuse behind the false firewall looks good. Has the motor just died? I would think if it were the motor it would have maybe given some symptoms or died a little less suddenly, but maybe I am wrong.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
First thing you need to do is verify 40A fuse bar you looked at has 12v on both sides using a meter or test lamp. changes are if it just up and quit on you enroute fuse bar cracked.
__________________
Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: USA models 91 Bianco 164B 5-speed ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento aka "Quik Silver" 164B ALFA 4US w/AT, 93 Rosso 164L 5-speed - semi-daily driver with issues.
164L Rescue projects: 91 Argento aka Non-QS, and organ donor 91 Nero 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:18 PM
Jim Burnette Jim Burnette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 32
Thanks Steve, I don't have a tester but I believe I have another 40 amp bar fuse I can replace it with. I will see if I can find it and give it a try.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:42 PM
Jim Burnette Jim Burnette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 32
I took the old 40 amp fuse bar off and I really thought that was the problem because right where where it hooked onto one of the terminals there was a crack about 3/4 of the way through the bar but I replaced it with a new one and made sure the connections were good but still no fan. It will be tomorrow before I can get a tester but in the mean time do you have any other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
Jim
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Alfisto Steve Alfisto Steve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 7,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Burnette View Post
I took the old 40 amp fuse bar off and I really thought that was the problem because right where where it hooked onto one of the terminals there was a crack about 3/4 of the way through the bar but I replaced it with a new one and made sure the connections were good but still no fan. It will be tomorrow before I can get a tester but in the mean time do you have any other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
Jim
Test the motor directly at connector to motor with 12v to wire that hooks to pink wire in chassis connector think it is green on motor side of connector and ground other wire to chassis and see if motor will run.

If not order new motor Welcome to eEuroparts.com for Saab 9000 at $63.90 and change out motor as brushes probably worn out. Search for how we do it.
__________________
Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: USA models 91 Bianco 164B 5-speed ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento aka "Quik Silver" 164B ALFA 4US w/AT, 93 Rosso 164L 5-speed - semi-daily driver with issues.
164L Rescue projects: 91 Argento aka Non-QS, and organ donor 91 Nero 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 05:34 PM
Jim Burnette Jim Burnette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 32
Steve I owe you another apology. I decided before going to anything more drastic I would try replacing the 10 amp fuse under the snow flake emblem just to give it a try. It had looked good when I first looked at the fuse box but once replaced the voila the fan now works. I feel like an idiot and I hope you will forgive me for wasting your time. I really thought I had given all the information because to just look at this fuse in the box it looked good.
Anyway if I ever do run into you I owe you several cold beers.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:17 PM
jrreeve jrreeve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 172
Hmm...think i need a new one?

Anyone know where I can get a new unit? Not just the bar, but the whole bracket, its trashed.

Rob
'91 164S
Attached Images
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:38 PM
Alfisto Steve Alfisto Steve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 7,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrreeve View Post
Hmm...think i need a new one?

Anyone know where I can get a new unit? Not just the bar, but the whole bracket, its trashed.

Rob
'91 164S
Looks like you have more than you should have attached to fuse box. What is that extra wire for? To melt it like that it appears fuse really was bypassed.

Fuse terminal has power in and then power out to motor with fuse bar in the middle to protect circuit.
__________________
Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: USA models 91 Bianco 164B 5-speed ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento aka "Quik Silver" 164B ALFA 4US w/AT, 93 Rosso 164L 5-speed - semi-daily driver with issues.
164L Rescue projects: 91 Argento aka Non-QS, and organ donor 91 Nero 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:58 PM
jrreeve jrreeve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 172
Steve,
Which do you mean? Set A or B? Set B is wired to the 40 AMP fuse. The others, I cannot say, i have not traced them back yet. I am finding some oddities with the wiring around here.

Any one with a spare?

Rob
'91 164S
Attached Images
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 07:06 AM
Alfisto Steve Alfisto Steve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 7,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrreeve View Post
Steve,
Which do you mean? Set A or B? Set B is wired to the 40 AMP fuse. The others, I cannot say, i have not traced them back yet. I am finding some oddities with the wiring around here.

Any one with a spare?

Rob
'91 164S
The A wires maybe the OEM ones are both red? - one red wire should go to terminal block underneath 40A fuse bar holder for 12v power to one side of fuse holder and other red wire should go to radiator fan motor.

The other wires have been added for some other reason you need to trace them out.

Fuse holder is a 7619808, fuse bar is 60777267 but I am sure you can buy an after market set up.

Difatta probably has some on their parts cars.

If B wire(s) wired to fuse as one solid wire to both terminals then somebody jumpered across so you have no safety with fuse. If cooling fan motor has bad bearing etc then maybe it overloaded wiring and melted holder. You are lucky you didn't set car on fire it that is the case.

If fan motor seized or has bad berarings you will have to replace bearings or motor. I have repaired a lot of these motors by getting armature turned if needed and replaced bearings. It is possible to replace brushes too if needed. Usually the problem is the bearings.
__________________
Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: USA models 91 Bianco 164B 5-speed ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento aka "Quik Silver" 164B ALFA 4US w/AT, 93 Rosso 164L 5-speed - semi-daily driver with issues.
164L Rescue projects: 91 Argento aka Non-QS, and organ donor 91 Nero 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 07-02-2008 at 07:33 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:13 AM
jrreeve jrreeve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 172
1. Both A wires are black. (maybe one is covered in oil or dirt or something...have to check)

2. Wires B have a 40 AMP fuse in line between them, perhaps because the fusable bar/link (60777267) was blown and the fuse holder (7619808) was burned? Just a guess, i can't think of any other reason to put a jumper there. As FYI, pulled the 40 AMP fuse, and it looks good.

I wonder if the fan bearings failed, melted the block, was fixed and then someone wired the 40AMP fuse inline rather than get a replacement. Sound feasable?

I can definitely get the fuse bar. I'm working on getting another fuse block (7619808) now.

Easy way to check the fan? Turn on the A/C and see if the radiator fan starts on low? I noticed that when the A/C is turned on, i hear an audible "click" coming from the engine bay. The A/C works fine...the radiator fan...has me worried.

Thanks for the input and the P/Ns.

Rob
'91 164S

Last edited by jrreeve; 07-02-2008 at 10:28 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:16 AM
Alfisto Steve Alfisto Steve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 7,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrreeve View Post
1. Both A wires are black. (maybe one is covered in oil or dirt or something...have to check)

2. Wires B have a 40 AMP fuse in line between them, perhaps because the fusable bar/link (60777267) was blown and the fuse holder (7619808) was burned? Just a guess, i can't think of any other reason to put a jumper there. As FYI, pulled the 40 AMP fuse, and it looks good.

I wonder if the fan bearings failed, melted the block, was fixed and then someone wired the 40AMP fuse inline rather than get a replacement. Sound feasable?

I can definitely get the fuse bar. I'm working on getting another fuse block (7619808) now.

Easy way to check the fan? Turn on the A/C and see if the radiator fan starts on low? I noticed that when the A/C is turned on, i hear an audible "click" coming from the engine bay. The A/C works fine...the radiator fan...has me worried.

Thanks for the input and the P/Ns?

Rob
'91 164S
The original cooling fan red wires have black covering over them almost to terminal ends.

Jumper wire if fused with fuse link then it replaces fuse bar.

Click you hear is a/c clutch engaging.

Cooling fan designed to come on when freon pressure in high side of a/c reaches about 200 psi or temp in radiator reaches about 198 (usually higher on gauge).

You can test both speed fan relays by grounding brown-white wire and brown wire for relays at chassis wiring connectors to radiator thermal switch connectors.
__________________
Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: USA models 91 Bianco 164B 5-speed ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento aka "Quik Silver" 164B ALFA 4US w/AT, 93 Rosso 164L 5-speed - semi-daily driver with issues.
164L Rescue projects: 91 Argento aka Non-QS, and organ donor 91 Nero 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



AlfaBB Blog Articles

Advertisement


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright 2002-2008 AlfaBB.com All Rights Reserved.


An exclusive design by: Forumskin.com