Jacking Point Failed!

[116_Veloce]

A few days ago something quite scary happened. I was jacking up the car to do some maintenance and check for a rattle I had. I am very strict when it comes to jacking up the car, and if I'm under the car I'll use a stand. This time, working only on the "outside" I used a normal 2-ton jack. I have a large rubber buffer too, for better grip and to avoid paint damage.

I was quite sure the jack was right in the middle of the front jacking point. On the 2nd try, I hear a loud metal cringe and the car fell on the jack.

I checked and realized that the jacking point detached from one of its spot-welds! Luckily, it got bent towards the outside so there is no floor-pan damage, just the lip of the two panels (floor-pan and seal) got creased and cracked the plastic side moulding a bit. I fixed it, noticing how easy it was to bend the jacking point back to its original position. This sort-of fixed the outer part of the sill, something I will address later when the plastic moulding is out.

Be VERY careful when working under the car, things happen.

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 116_Veloce A few days ago something quite scary happened. I was jacking up the car to do some maintenance and check for a rattle I had. I am very strict when it comes to jacking up the car, and if I'm under the car I'll use a stand. This time, working only on the "outside" I used a normal 2-ton jack. I have a large rubber buffer too, for better grip and to avoid paint damage. I was quite sure the jack was right in the middle of the front jacking point. On the 2nd try, I hear a loud metal cringe and the car fell on the jack. I checked and realized that the jacking point detached from one of its spot-welds! Luckily, it got bent towards the outside so there is no floor-pan damage, just the lip of the two panels (floor-pan and seal) got creased and cracked the plastic side moulding a bit. I fixed it, noticing how easy it was to bend the jacking point back to its original position. This sort-of fixed the outer part of the sill, something I will address later when the plastic moulding is out. Be VERY careful when working under the car, things happen.

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Braden They certainly do!!!! I've seen the jack stands collapse and dump the car. There are several threads on the bb dedicated to "proper" jacking and use of jack stands with a floor jack as an additional safety measure. One of Brian Shorey's posts gives pretty detailed instructions about how to check for support and steadiness before diving under the car. That is not to indicate that you did it improperly, only that these threads were not about 164s as I remember, but still information worth knowing and heeding when putting your body and life under a car.

[frankvan]

Both my rear jack points have failed to the point where they're through the thin sheet metal underneath and resting on some sort of frame about 2 inches higher inside the car! I have to find a fix for this before the next inspection or the vehicle will fail and basically become scrap metal. Essentially there are very few (or none) good jack points in the rear.
The front ones have probably survived because I either use the control arm plates (as mentioned my Jason) or the front subframe - depending if I'm working in front of or behind the axle. And a small piece of 2x4 works well as a buffer plate (or a hockey puck works too, but being Canadian using a puck would be sacrilege, eh!)

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int. jack stands are total crap on these cars. If not used with the proper supplied jack stand they can get damaged and finall fail, rip off or whatever. I suggest if using your floor jack use the front and rear center jack points. Typically the front hook (center) and rear hook (center) are the best spots. I suggest a block of wood on the rear and make sure you hit it square or your spare tire well gets damaged. Some models, usually earlier had rear plates on each side which can work well too. For front if you want to jack on the sides use the rear control arm plates. I have had a rusty spider fall right through the hydraulic lift. YIKES!! floor ans collapsed. Jason

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Braden Just out of total curiosity, having never owned a 164, are you saying that the 164s cannot be supported on a 2 ton lever, locking, operated jack stand at each of the four wheels placed under the axles with a floor jack as an additional safety measure either at the rear or front of the car with a 4x4 used for leveling and spreading the lift surface? Pat never used the jacking points on any of our Alfas nor did he use the jacks furnished with the cars to avoid damaging the exterior metal. Is the 164 so different that this is not possible? Or am I missing something.....

[116_Veloce]

I never had any problems before, and all points seemed apt for the job. It's enough to have the jack slip a little and exhert pressure on one point or edge to bend the point, like happened to me. The shop lift points seem the most secure to lift the car. It's enough for the usual jacking point to hit a curb once to bend it or weaken a spot weld and it can eventually fail. Next time for safety reasons I will use wooden blocks, the rubber got torn when the car fell. You try to do good and end up doing worse.

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int. ...I never use factory jacks stands on any car except for tire blow outs on the highway and using the trunk jack (although in all my years I have only had 1 blow out, knock wood) Ciao!

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Braden Thanks for the explanation. When I said never, I meant never. We always carried a portable floor jack to change flats on the road if they did occur. Neither of us had the patience to deal with an inferior jack, road traffic, weather, and 3 children to change a tire. The portable floor jack made it quick and easy along with allowing Pat the luxury of a movable jack if other repairs were ever necessary that required its use.

[Michael Smith]

The 164 has pretty handy jacking points with a large "pin" fitting neatly into the factory jack. This pin also sits nicely on the center of the lifting pad on a standard floor jack. If they fail that would not be so nifty but mine are rock solid at 16 years old and counting.

The 164 also has center lift points front and back and other jacking points for overhead hoists.

You cannot support one of these modern fwd cars on the axles, partly because they don't really have axles. The pressed metal or tube type beam axles used on many fwd cars cannot support jacking loads. The suspension mounting plates front and rear are good spots as these are very strong. On other fwd cars like my SAAB 9000 I routinely use the front subframe mounting area just inboard from SAAB's weird factory jack point. In the rear I always use the leading end of the trailing arm where it is bolted to the body. I place the lift pad right under the bolt and have done so for over twenty years of twice yearly tire changes without problems.

One paradox is that the best places to use jack stands are also blocked by the floor jack!

[peglegtom]

and also supported it with jack stands on the subframe. Seems solid enough. When I let down the jack and the front was supported by one jack stand, the opposite front wheel didn't even hit the ground.

But the rear is another story. I have yet to find a place where I'm confident of jacking the car. When I stored it for the winter, I put the jack stands on the front subframe and the rear jacking points. Seemed solid enough, and i could open the doors without problems, indicating that the body is not twisted. But jacking the car to put on the jack stands worries me.

Any suggestions?

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Smith The 164 has pretty handy jacking points with a large "pin" fitting neatly into the factory jack. This pin also sits nicely on the center of the lifting pad on a standard floor jack. If they fail that would not be so nifty but mine are rock solid at 16 years old and counting. The 164 also has center lift points front and back and other jacking points for overhead hoists. You cannot support one of these modern fwd cars on the axles, partly because they don't really have axles. The pressed metal or tube type beam axles used on many fwd cars cannot support jacking loads. The suspension mounting plates front and rear are good spots as these are very strong. On other fwd cars like my SAAB 9000 I routinely use the front subframe mounting area just inboard from SAAB's weird factory jack point. In the rear I always use the leading end of the trailing arm where it is bolted to the body. I place the lift pad right under the bolt and have done so for over twenty years of twice yearly tire changes without problems. One paradox is that the best places to use jack stands are also blocked by the floor jack!

[keownk1]

Right now, I'm rebuilding the rear suspension, so it was no big deal to sacrifice the cross rail; but, under normal circumstances how does one jack up a 164 rear end and still have access to a spot to put the stands?

There is supposed to be a point behind the spare tire well, but I'm not able to identify this on my car.

Thanks,

Ken