Heater Core Blown?

[jontg428]

Wow Mr. T, you found it! My old link would not work, I thought it was lost forever!

[gprocket]

Outstanding guys! The heater core removal procedure is great - just what I was hoping for. Looking at it, I would guess it would take an hour which when I fact my rule of 6 (it always takes 6 times longer) puts me right at your estimates.

The Glycol mix is intriguing - I'll bet it was almost straight water after the radiator blew since my son reported little or no anitfreeze smell. I also wondered about the cap too. The fan was working fine, that was not an issue. I'm not sure I know what you are referring to here "...low speed resistor failure...". Is that part of the fan circuit? The temp gauge and overtemp idiot light were watched closely but I wonder how accurate that is if the motor is seriously low on coolant...

Steve, is the SAAB blower motor part # 9628587?

I will probably tackle this job today or Wednesday. It should be a good distraction from thinking about the Red Wings 3OT loss to the Penguins in the fifth game of the Stanley Cup finals. Instead I'll just think about Pittsburgh tying it with 33 seconds in the 3rd...

[ChazzyD]

Be very careful with those tabs (one on each side) that hold the blower fan housing to the core housing, they break very easily especially when trying to get the housing in and out. It will take the better part of your day to do this job, unfortunately. Don't be afraid to gung-ho remove stuff, that is the general rule on the 164, remove as much as you can and it will become easier. i noticed that when I removed the wiper rack a few days ago, that you can get to the left side of the heater core hoses and the tab on that side much easier than if it is left in place, so don't be afraid to move that out of you way too, it is easy to put back and will give you more room to move the blower box around and get to the hose connections at the core.
Charles

[Alfisto Steve]

Yes the blower motor 9628587 is the one to buy eEuroparts: Product Detail

Cooling fan low speed resistor is in fan shroud behind coil and relay pack. If low speed resistor is bad fan will not run on low speed with a/c on or when low temp switch in radiator made.

If resistor is bad you can jump blue and brown wires to it together so fan will run on high with a/c freon pressure at 215 psi and or when low temp switch on at 198F.

You really 50/50 mix of coolant as high side thermal switch set for 206 as there isn't any margin for error with water boiling at 212F. You must keep boiling point up around 230.

[gprocket]

What a week. My plant uses machines that operate using PLC (programable logic control) computers. One of them went out and as it turns out is NLA and unrepairable. So all week we had to rewire and reprogram the machine systems. Finally got it back online after 10 days. The hard part was that no one including myself knew how to do this. Was not unlike trying to troubleshoot a misbehaving 164. Speaking of which...

Swapped in a good heater core (thanks for the link to the write up) and we solved that issue. But in the best tradition of the Alfaworld fixing one problem revealed two more.

First we noticed that the wiring going from the speed control unit to the blower motor was getting really hot. Some previous fix had replaced the 4m wire with a 1m wire and effectively introduced a nice long resistor in the circuit. Then the AC pump clutch would not come on. The outside air temp was registering -40F (about 130 degrees off) so I figured the clutch wasn't being asked to do engage. After a lot of horsing around we traced it to a faulty ECU. A good unit was swapped in which solved the temperature problem but the clutch still is a no go.

I am going to check to see if we are getting 12VDC at the clutch. I searched but as yet have not found the Q22 AC clutch relay. Any ideas?

[Alfisto Steve]

Q22 behind instrument cluster. Don't go there yet. First off do you have a freon charge? If so hit auto button, if ac blower motor runs then F12 fuse OK since blower relay worksa and power should be going to Q22 relay, too but is it getting grounded? To ground it freon pressure has to make Q20 trinary switch on receiver dryer. If no freon or low it won't work. To check electrical circuit jump green and gray-black wires in red connector on reciver dryer now relay should send power to a/c clutch if frost switch Q26 under small black cover behind receiver dryer wired correctly and closed. If still no joy with all this stuff working go to grn-blk wire to red connector at compressor and check for 12v with all above grounds made. Also be sure black ground wire at compressor hooked up.

[gprocket]

Excellent! I was wondering if there was a low pressure switch but I didn't notice it in the circuit - is that what the trinary switch does? I believe I am low on freon so that would make sense.

Will report back...

[Alfisto Steve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gprocket Excellent! I was wondering if there was a low pressure switch but I didn't notice it in the circuit - is that what the trinary switch does? I believe I am low on freon so that would make sense. Will report back...

[gprocket]

I got all the electrical, sensors, plumbing, etc issues sorted out. Filled the AC with R134A and everything fired up. But it wasn't long before the AC "obtained room temperature" so to speak. Figuring I had a leak, I added some UV dye and pulled out my UV light. With the AC on high I waited for the clutch to kick which it did but I also got a squealing belt in the bargain. The pump has seized. Thereafter the clutch would not engage which could have been a number of things - I didn't have time to find out.

So does this mean that the pump is bad or is there any other, less lethal explanation? BTW I didn't see any leaks.

[AlexGS]

I wonder if you added oil when you filled with R134a? And if so, which oil - ester oil seems to be recommended if it has to 'mix' with residues left from before. Now I guess you'll have to take the compressor apart; Alfisto Steve provided a complete photo story of this a few months back - best of luck!

My compressor had a bent shaft and the pulley wobbled. I bought another old compressor for not a lot of money (about $US30) and had a new bearing/shaft seal fitted to it.

-Alex

[Alfisto Steve]

I converted my son's 92L to 134a today. I changed receiver dryer and service fittings. Sucked system down with a vac pump and added 4 oz of ester oil and dye charge along with 44 oz of Freon.

Had to also change recirculation door motor on evaporator box under right rear corner of windshield as it would not close door.

Seems to work pretty good and I got about 45F air out of dash.

[gprocket]

My first can was the R134A with lubricating oil. Should that have been sufficient? I'm guessing no oil means stuck compressor.

I guess my next question is this: Is there a way to determine the condition of a pump outside of the car? Obviously if is not turning that's a pretty good indication. But I have a couple of spares that I believe turn (I will verify this) but I don't want to go to all the work and expense of installing one only to find that it is no good. OTAH, I'm not too keen on buying a new compressor.

Man, these AC units are kicking my butt. I have avoided working or even learning about them for the entirety of my adult life but now I am besieged by problems. Most frustrating is that I know most of my problems are brought on by my own ignorance. I just hopped in one of my other 164's (recent valve job that required disconnecting the AC) and the AC is inop. I assume I have a leak but haven't dug into it yet. With no viable Alfa mechanics in the area, I am loathe to hand it off to just anyone only to hear "time and materials".

Here is the thread I assume you are referring to: Alfa Romeo 164 A/C Compressor Info As always, very informative.

[gprocket]

Learning, learning, learning... So I guess when you jam 6 lbs of freon in a 2.5 lb system you get whatcha call overload. Without a pressure gauge (hmmm, never do this without a gauge again) and thinking we were leaking coolant like a sieve, I thought nothing of adding the can of dye into the system. The compressor would start momentarily and then shut off. This made no sense until I put a gauge on it and saw that I was way over 55 psi. Interesting, the car sat over the weekend and held pressure the whole time so I guess I proved that leaks weren't an issue. After bleeding out a bunch R134A, the pump started up and everything seems to be working. I guess I also proved the over pressure shut off works.

The grey car, the source for much frustration this weekend turned out to be just a little to low on the juice so a bit of refill and everything perked right up. The black car has never been converted and since I haven't messed with it, it is actually working just fine.

Right now, at this point in time I have Three working, driveable 164's. I wasn't sure I could get there and don't know how long I'll be there but I'm happy for it.


The (momentarily) happy fleet

[AlexGS]

Very nice to hear of a simple fix and to see your fleet. That grass is nice and green too!

Is there no need for front number plates where you live?

-Alex

[gprocket]

Michigan does not require front plates thank goodness. Digital pictures make the grass (as well as the cars) look their best. In truth it is mostly weeds as unfortunately the property is being rented out and the tenants aren't much for lawn care. For self defense, we usually spread weed n' feed on their lawn as well as ours. This is actually an industrial sub division and frankly with the current rough economic climate around here few of the properties are being tended to like they used to...

But I'm of the opinion that nothing spruces up an area like a few well placed Alfas!