Rear main oil seal

[Terry Mancheste]

I would like to replace the rear main oil seal on a '95 164Q. Leaking oil burning on the exhast pipe under the bellhousing is poisoning me as I drive and leaving an oily patch on the driveway. I've read a few of the posts on this subject but would like to make sure I understand the job and parts needed before starting. Is this list correct?

Parts:
1) Rear main oil seal
2) Clutch (82K miles on the existing one which works fine)
3) Pressure plate?
4) Throw out bearing?? (works fine)
5) Starter??? (works fine)
6) What else?

Things to do:
1) Resurface flywheel? What is the two step resurface I've read about?
2) Check transmission input shaft for roller vs. ball bearings
3) Cigarette seals, any chance these are the leak problem?
4) What else?

Terry Manchester
Los Gatos, CA
'64 Giulia Spider
'74 GTV
'95 164Q

[Richard2]

I'm not really familiar with the 24V engine, but if the starter is located/mounted the same, it's a must do whether it's working or not!!

[Alfisto Steve]

Starter the same but also has a front mount similiar to Milano and GTV6 so even harder to get out than 12v 164.

If cigarette seals leaking you have to pull oil pan to replace. Remove lower front steel bell housing cover from over flywheel so you can see better where oil leaking from first. Cover between front exhaust pipe and flywheel. Has 3 10mm hex bolts holding it on. Spray clean area and check for leak. Also check rear edge pan bolts for looseness.

Hopefully it is not cigarette seals.

As for 2-step flywheel outer flat surface machined lower for mounting pressure plate than inner surface for clutch disc to mate with.

Machinist needs to measure depth first so he takes off same amount from both surfaces to keep the same difference after machining inner surface.

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Mancheste I would like to replace the rear main oil seal on a '95 164Q. Leaking oil burning on the exhast pipe under the bellhousing is poisoning me as I drive and leaving an oily patch on the driveway. I've read a few of the posts on this subject but would like to make sure I understand the job and parts needed before starting. Is this list correct? Parts: 1) Rear main oil seal 2) Clutch (82K miles on the existing one which works fine) 3) Pressure plate? 4) Throw out bearing?? (works fine) 5) Starter??? (works fine) 6) What else? Things to do: 1) Resurface flywheel? What is the two step resurface I've read about? 2) Check transmission input shaft for roller vs. ball bearings 3) Cigarette seals, any chance these are the leak problem? 4) What else? Terry Manchester Los Gatos, CA '64 Giulia Spider '74 GTV '95 164Q

[Richard2]

Every 164 I've owned the clutch engages near the floor. I've tried a couple of things to try to get it higher, without success. I had 2 different lenghts of pin from the slave cylinder to the clutch actuating arm. No change. I tried increasing the height of the step on the flywheel slightly. The 164B is running a flywheel that is .003 higher step than was measured when I took it to the machine shop to turn it. It still engages low, but I really think this is the change need to get the clutch to engage higher. I just had the flywheel turned to put on the red 164S engine I'm rebuilding. It is a little more aggressive. It was turned .015 higher than measured. We'll see what happens. My machine shop has done his for other nonAlfa customers. I may end up pulling the transmission and getting the flywheel turned again I'm not recommending this to anyone. It's experimenting. I'll try it and report the results. There will be immediate results (engages higher or not), and longer term results ( how does it affect clutch wear).
Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to try it.

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard2 Every 164 I've owned the clutch engages near the floor. I've tried a couple of things to try to get it higher, without success. I had 2 different lenghts of pin from the slave cylinder to the clutch actuating arm. No change. I tried increasing the height of the step on the flywheel slightly. The 164B is running a flywheel that is .003 higher step than was measured when I took it to the machine shop to turn it. It still engages low, but I really think this is the change need to get the clutch to engage higher. I just had the flywheel turned to put on the red 164S engine I'm rebuilding. It is a little more aggressive. It was turned .015 higher than measured. We'll see what happens. My machine shop has done his for other nonAlfa customers. I may end up pulling the transmission and getting the flywheel turned again I'm not recommending this to anyone. It's experimenting. I'll try it and report the results. There will be immediate results (engages higher or not), and longer term results ( how does it affect clutch wear). Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to try it.

[ChazzyD]

Now that is a nice idea, weld a socket onto that upper starter bolt! Why didn't I think of that? I've gotten to the point that whenever major work needs to be done, I just yank the engine and tranny out the top and do what needs doing with it all laying on the ground. New cam seals?, no problem, new clutch?, no problem, take the starter off?, no problem (well actually that is still kind of hard) change out the steering rack?, no problem, fuel hoses in the corner of the firewall?, no problem. Just do it all at once and build a keeper! You won't want to get rid of it after all the effort. In about three days time you can get a lot of major stuff taken care of. Sounds crazy, but it has worked for me so far.
Charles

[Terry Mancheste]

Thanks for the responses to my questions about rear main oil seal replacement. It sounds like I should first check that the leak is not from the pan gasket or loose pan bolts and I should probably replace the starter even if it's working OK.

The idea of pulling the engine intrigues me. There are other problems with the car I would like to fix. The climate control doesn't work. Looking behind the false firewall I can see the air mix lever moving for and aft when I change the temperature setting but the air temperature does not change. I think there is a break between the lever and the air mixing flap so the flap does not move. Is it worth pulling the engine for this if I am already doing the rear main oil seal and clutch?

Other items are an air recirc error code at climate control self test and air conditioner that I think is leaking refrigerant somewhere. I mention these just in case servicing them would aslo be easier with the engine out.

Terry Manchester
'64 Giulia Spider
'74 GTV
'95 164Q

[velocedoc]

If you ask Lenard how he pulled the tranny with out pulling the engine you will save you alot of work of pulling stuff and reinstallation.

The starter bolt is a major pain, skinny hands help. Isn't there a way to insure that the clutch fork is engaged on the throwout bearing? Or is this just one of those plug and play installs like on a 105 Alfa? *I forgot*

Self test on the climate control?

I agree, do all the things you can while you are in there as if anything else should show up it will be a major pain to get back in there to repair.

The '94 is starting to weep on the shield on the exhaust, so I suspect it won't be long before I am diving in there to replace the rear main as well...182,000 miles on the odo.

[ChazzyD]

You can do all A/C work with the engine in, the false firewall comes out easily enough with the engine in place. Many other things are easier to do though with it out and I think going "whole hog" on it, at least once makes for a much better sorted out car if certain major and minor things are needing attention. Mine used to do the same, drip on the exhaust thing, and wasn't very pleasant, that alone was worth the effort, nevermind the wonderful new clutch action and new cam seals, steering rack, etc. I have pulled a tranny out by itself before on this car and didn't like it one bit, much too awkward to deal with.
Charles