ball joint - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northeast CT
Posts: 483
ball joint

I recently replaced the ball joints in my 1993 164L. I installed them on the underside of the A-arm because that is where the original ones were installed. I just noticed on the attached A-arm picture the ball joints appear to be installed on the top of the A-arm. What is the correct location of the ball joints, on the top side or the bottom side of the A-arm?

https://www.centerlinealfa.com/catal...-arm-164-right
Rick1803 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:01 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfisto Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 24,041
Under is probably better, because if mounted on upper side of lower suspension arm the weight of car is supported only by the three ball joint mounting bolts. Whereas if mounted under lower arm the ball joint flange is supporting the weight and the bolts just holding ball joint in place.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Maintenance Sticky:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Daily drivers: USA models - 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO;

Daughter's current ride: BB1 my 164L and Her Granddads 2002 Ford Taurus is back up.

New parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

Needing TLC non-blackbeast the 93 164L

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
Alfisto Steve is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:28 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
pinino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: woodstock ny
Posts: 1,804
I don't think it matters, but if you are borderline with too much neg. camber, mounting on top, and pulling upright inward before cinching bolts will get you as much a .5 %
Alfissimo Int. likes this.

white '92 164 S (67K)
pinino is online now  
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 468
I bought control arms with ball joints already attached as well as bushings. From Centerline.

I didn't notice but my mechanic told me one of the two ball joints was incorrect for the car. Sure enough, it was true. Had to have Centerline ship me a new ball joint.

Anyone else have this issue?
jckevin is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:10 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 11,613
Mine are on the bottom, installed years ago by the mechanic. I have had the same question.

I was going to change these ball joints myself but got a little stuck trying to get the lower suspension arm down out of the way past the ball joint flange to use the removal tool.

Did you have that trouble?

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is online now  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:19 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northeast CT
Posts: 483
I used a "pickle fork" ball joint separator to remove the old ball joints, they came out pretty easily.

During installation I had trouble keeping the A-arm from pinching the rubber boot on the new ball joints. I firmly secured a 4' long 2x4 to the underside of the A-arm and used my leg to pull the A-arm down so that I could use two hands to carefully position the A-arm flange and ball joint flange.

That pinching problem would be avoided if the ball joint was installed on the top side of the A-arm as shown in the Centerline photo.
Rick1803 is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:44 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfissimo Int.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona-US
Posts: 8,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinino View Post
I don't think it matters, but if you are borderline with too much neg. camber, mounting on top, and pulling upright inward before cinching bolts will get you as much a .5 %
I have been saying this for years, it is to be placed on top. This is the proper location! Mine is on top of the control arm per the manual. Most any newer vehicle with ball joints have them built into control arm. Like pinino says it really does not matter much but on top is stronger and correct. May be why some have more negative camber. It does reduce camber ever so slightly. I do not want all the weight on the 3 small bolts. I like the ball joint using the control arm for support instead of just the bolts. Makes more sense to distribute the weight despite if bolted in on bottom is essentially doing the same thing, less worry about bolts loosing up too when on top.
Bottom is incorrect guys!
Google: "Alfa romeo 164 control arm" and tell me what you see?

I see the majority like this (only 1 was on bottom):



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Jason Minos


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Tel:+1 928-526-0549

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Alfissimo Int.; 03-11-2017 at 06:08 AM.
Alfissimo Int. is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:51 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfissimo Int.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona-US
Posts: 8,386
Also, this does not say much but from what I gather, looks like should be on top.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Jason Minos


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Tel:+1 928-526-0549

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Alfissimo Int. is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 06:00 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfissimo Int.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona-US
Posts: 8,386
From the factory manual. On top is shown throughout suspension section very clear.
Name:  fullsizeoutput_1a95.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  31.8 KB
Attached Images
  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Jason Minos


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Tel:+1 928-526-0549

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Alfissimo Int.; 03-11-2017 at 06:11 AM.
Alfissimo Int. is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 11:05 AM
Registered User
 
ChazzyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Posts: 3,860
If you assume the weight of the car travels down the strut to the hub/knuckle to the wheel/tire, there is not any serious car weight on the lower balljoint. The lower control arm and lower balljoint only have side to side (lateral) forces mostly. The lower control arm/ball joint only provides a lateral anchor point for the suspension system. So put the lower ball joint were you want to fix/optimize camber. It will not all just come apart if it is mount top or bottom incorrectly or correctly according to images we can find. Nobody over the years has reported a problem top or bottom mounted that I can recall.
Charles

-'91 164L 5 speed 229k miles and counting
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-'04 Volvo XC70 -'89 Volvo 244 "the Brick" - 2004 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer 4.6 V8
ChazzyD is offline  
post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:33 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 11,613
It is interesting to me that my 94LS with still the original ball joints has them mounted on the bottom of the susp arm, evidently from the factory.

Same for the 91S, when replaced, ended up on the bottom side.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-11-2017 at 07:42 PM.
Del is online now  
post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 7,833
All of my 164s had them mounted on the bottom as well...
Richard2 is offline  
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 10:21 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 11,613
The tool I bought won't work on the hub ball joint, not enough clearance, so I guess I have to use the pickle fork I've had for decades. Too bad. I've never liked that tool. Will install the flange on the bottom.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-11-2017 at 10:24 PM.
Del is online now  
post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 10:30 PM
Bored Member
Gold Subscriber
 
jc96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Casarsa Della Delizia Italy
Posts: 4,276
Garage
you guys need that 15 dollar wonder from HF. I don't have a pick but its black and heavy. Got a bolt on one end and acts like a big lobster claw. Works totally amazingly well.....

far as on top or on bottom? While I prefer the bottom, it mounts easier from the top and ripping the boot is minimal threat. ciao, chris

Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...

Last edited by jc96; 03-11-2017 at 10:33 PM.
jc96 is offline  
post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 10:52 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 11,613
That's the tool I have, and cannot get clearance for it at that ball joint between the top of the ball joint bolt and the ABS ring on the axle, as well as having the lower susp arm in the way, even pushed down hard, sway bar lolliepop disconnected.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome