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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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jc is doin' Giulia

and Susan is cool with it. Rossa too!! RC not so much so....

I'm not a reviewer, just a car guy who loves Alfa's. I've been playing with this thing for a few and can offer up some thoughts. The cars looks are quite subjective. I personally think it looks as tho a 3 series and an A4 made a baby.The color makes a difference. It's about the same size as a 164. The car here is a 2.2L turbo diesel with the 8 speed auto. This thing is stupid fast. Rated to 100kph and about 7 seconds. Takes no time to hit 100 mph. The brakes are the most awesome brakes I've ever experienced on a car but I found that when they're cold, they are very touchy. Cold as in first driving after sitting for a while.

The car is screwed together quite well and is quiet on the road and firm of ride but not harsh. There is no air noise but the engine is noisier than I thought it would be. I found the auto fold in mirrors are very noisy when operating. The car drives well and the steering is very light but very nice and the wheel very comfortable to hold. It is very easy to drive this car very fast on the secondary roads here and one could get into alot of trouble with it with traffic cameras and spot roadcheck points. The car has a stop and go feature that is a huge PITA to me. I could not figger out how to disable it to this point. The car also features electronic stability and this is obvious when trying to get the thing sideways in traffic circles. It seems to apply a brake or 2 somewhere as well as limiting what I can do with my right foot. There are 3 modes for driving. Its called DNA and selected with a knob. For an auto, the trans is nice and kicks down when needed but seems to hold a gear when I don't want it held. I'd not own this without it being a manually shifted car.

When we were stateside 2 years ago, we rented a Chrysler 200 and this car reminds me alot of the 200. Nit picking on what I do not like about it is pretty silly but it is stuff I took note of. More to come. This car is approx 31K when converted to USD from Euro. A few pics to start: ciao, chris
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Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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picking nits

The things I don't like. Bear in mind I drive old cars and know full well that cars of today are designed for todays people. The pillars on this thing are huge and makes outward visibility more difficult than I'm used to in Rossa and RC. I do like that the vent for the defroster is internal to the A pillar. The B's are very large and looking over my shoulder when merging for example, cause great vision issues in my case. Maybe has something to do with how I adjust the seat. The mirrors are large and help a bit but I like to "see" where I'm going. The front rear view mirror is large and way down the glass. The upper console and mirror really obstruct my forward view. Much the same as in the 200 we rented.

The hump is huge. I'd forgotten how intrusive a transmission tunnel actually is. The top of the hump in front, is arched ever so slightly and this makes it impossible to keep things there. One of those super sticky fone pads would work wonders here.

The hood release feels cheap and the underhood release mech is cheaply done. On release lever, it does not fully return to it's out of the way position. The hood on this car is very difficult to open. The glovebox door release is a chrome affair and would not return to it's fully retracted position and the chrome sticking out is a distraction. As are the red lights in the doors for the locks.

The visors are an odd affair. They are lowered with your right finger. Trying to lower them with my left hand on the left side was impossible. This mattered since I'm a lefty and I noticed it right away. The part where it hooks to the hinge leaves a very large hole where stray light shines in. I noted this because the sun picked this hole to shine thru when it was down. I like the document clips integral to them.

The seats are a generic fabric. Sort of comfortable but well bolstered and held us in place in the twisties.

The roof is high and getting in the car was easier than any of the new cars I've driven in the last few years. I don't care for not being able to adjust the height of the seatbelt on the B pillar. The key thingy is to quote Mr Trump; "YUGE" ciao, chris
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Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...

Last edited by jc96; 03-10-2017 at 10:25 AM.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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few more...

I know this is stupid but I thought the switch controls for the windows are too far forward. Where my arm naturally falls allows perfect opening of the rear windows. Maybe I sit too far back. ciao, chris
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Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 10:02 AM
Del
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It is interesting to note that the European authorities are now beginning to realize that Diesel engines are worse for smog than they had thought in general, and that they might have to curtail the production of them in the future.

The diesel Giulietta we drove in Italy performed pretty well, except I kept bouncing the engine off the ridiculously low rev limit, and missed being able to run it higher as we were used to with our gas powered cars. Also, the sound was not Alfa as we know it here in the States. The car came with a 6 speed transmission, which we thought was just fine, although we rarely had the opportunity to get into 6th gear. A gas powered version of that car would have been a treat, and could have been a purchase possibility here in the States for us. More so than what we are seeing in the new Giulia, IMO.

So far, I've not gotten excited about going over to the nearby dealer to take a look at the Giulia, esp since the local government has passed a new car tab tax which would mean that in buying a new car, we would pay ~20% more just for sales tax and tab tax. The almost worthless LS, 91S, and Milano we have are looking pretty good at this point in time.

Noting JC's comments about the size of the windows, that's something we've noticed in newer cars, is that you end up realizing just how much better the window sizes are in the older cars, so that you could look out easily. Small high windows, esp the rear side and back windows, seem to be a trend now that we really dislike.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-10-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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and the visor. Can't lower it with left finger.

Would I like to own one of these. Don't know but not for the reasons you might think. I doubt it. Driving the car is fantastic but it is more appliance like than I like. Then again, what isn't these days? The car goes like stink, stops on a dime and handles like nothing I've ever driven. Lovely!!

I like not having a car note and the associated costs. How would I think after the novelty wore off and the payments wore on?

You can't check the oil and there is really nothing you can work on yourself. There are no quirks, no smells, no grunts and no nothing. The car seems to do everything pretty well. So do my old ones. For me they're more interesting in that I know every nut and bolt of the car and we share a love affair. With Rossa and RC, you have to actually drive them and focus on what you're doing. With this, you just get in and go. I can relate to the old barnstormers and their aircraft portrayed in the movies, working on their A/C and standing there wiping something down. Romantic to me and something I love about old Alfa's.

Now, I'll rent another and take it around Europe possibly. Or from time to time when I just want something different to mess with. Sylvia down the hall at work understands that if cars are simply sitting in her lot, they're not making book so she comes down and teases me with rates that say "sure why not".

Now a Giulietta with this diesel setup could get my attention and at 15K less, you never know. Or the MiTo.....

ciao, chris
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Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
jc96 is online now  
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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Smaller windows are not fashion related.

Glass is heavier then steel panels.

More importantly, glass offers no crash protection and steel/aluminum does.

Ditto the thicker roof pillars.

Problem is the regulators set the result required without considering how it must be achieved.

The effect of all this regulation on styling is awful.

Worse yet is the effect on actual driving.

We are all driving around in cars that are safe to crash in but dangerous to drive in.

This in turn results from a complete failure to admit that the real problem is the very poor driving skills we expect from drivers. The current most popular remedy for this is autonomous driving aids. This enables truly terrifyingly unskilled drivers to mimic skilled drivers, for much of the time but with catastrophic consequences when the driver aids reach their limits.
g84, ianellisalfa and PhilBoncer like this.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:08 PM
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Giulia is 3 series competition and should be sized accordingly.

The transmission tunnel is wide right at the driver's right calf due to the room needed for the power take off for the awd to the front axle. My Jaguar XF is the same and uses the same ZF system. A Lexus 250/350 is worse using Aisin's version.

Shoulder belt upper mount should be adjustable. Is it in a slot in the b pillar as for a Volvo or actually fixed height?

Window switch location and sun visor issues are common for new designs. Windshield slope and size often do not work well with headliner shape or side window size or shape.

My pet bugbear at the moment is the ZF shift lever. By accepting it is totally electric they have changed the ergonomic operation into a floppy and confusing switch instead of the lever it mimics. The rotary selector used by Jaguar and now FCA is far superior ergonomically. Ergonomic design requires that form follow function and, even more important, form matches the operator's expectation and operating techniques.

Touch screens and gearshift "levers" that are just buttons are just two examples of significant retrograde steps in car control ergonomics.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Del
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We rented a Ford not that many years ago, and to our dismay, the touch controls and menu driven whatever for the radio and hvac system were pretty difficult to use. Hated it actually. I read a year later that a Ford representative said that they discovered the drivers really do prefer knobs and real switches that one can easily use to adjust things, not menu driven touch screens. Said that they would change some of that back to real knobs, etc. We really dislike the touch screen stuff where you have to search down through menus to try to change or adjust something, mostly because you do have to take your eyes off the road for a longer time than for just turning a knob or hitting a real switch.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:11 PM
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I haven't test driven any really new cars, but I can't believe some have touch screen controls. Seriously??? Years ago we toured the Jaquar factory in Coventry, England, and the big deal there was an electronically controlled automatic EMERGENCY BRAKE. By Lucas? Really? We were laughing hard about that. I agree that when you love to drive, and like to do it well, you don't want a car that drives for you. And it is nice to actually be able to work on your vehicle. My 95 chevy caprice wagon is as close to being unworkable-on that I can tolerate. To swap out the distributor cap you have to remove the water pump AND a pulley (and everything else that's in the way). Just to change the plugs I have to work from underneath the car. To R&R the AC compressor removing one of the engine mount bolts is recommended. Etc. etc. Makes working on an old Alfa seem like a dream. Guess we'll we be happy with our '91 164 and '86 Spider. The only thing easier on the Chevy than the Alfas is changing the oil. Oh well. Sounds like the Giulia would be fun to rent and run around Europe in, though.
VM
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:34 PM
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The front end has some character, or at least the big alfa grill differentiates it a little from the herd. The back.... could be anything... hyundai, ford, toyota... anything. Overall, not inspiring. I hope the coupe is not this blah

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:56 PM
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We had a rental brand new Toyota Corolla to drive on our recent holiday in Victoria whilst the failed crank sensor was being replaced on the GT. It had a touch screen that did everything, including the sound, air conditioning, reversing camera etc. The problem was that you couldn't see a thing on it in the daylight with the brightness turned up fully. How much testing did they do on the thing? That is a pretty major oversight when it does all the things you need on a daily basis. It was just a cheap piece of crap. I like the fact that my GT has knobs for the air conditioner with click steps. It actually has ten speeds because each click changes the fan speed by half a step. I am tempted to one day get a head unit with Apple Car Play so that I can have all the functions of my iPhone on it though. Our 2004 and 2008 Alfas are still an absolute joy to drive and you do get used to having the mod cons on them. Driving 400 km in summer with nice cold air conditioning is wonderful. Even with my improvements the 164 wasn't that good.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 07:33 PM
Del
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My older bro has a new Mazda 6, and I got a chance to drive it yesterday. Well, yeah, it drove fine, but the controls were flakey in my opinion. Disliked the electronic emergency brake for one, and the unneeded and superfluous keyless start and off button system turns out to be so hackable, the car companies are having a hard time trying to come up with unhackable electronics in new cars.

I found that either things were happening that I didn't expect, or things were not happening that I had expected. Yes, one can get used to it, but why should I? All these electronic thingys are not my style. Just toys for the young "smart phone" types.

To me, the only interesting item was the heads up display, but even that was distracting at times, just not being used to it I guess.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-10-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:02 PM
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I'm a smart phone guy and I'm certainly not young in body. I am young in mind though. I love all that stuff and wouldn't go back to the days when we didn't have them for anything. My wife is the same. We use ours all the time and love sending photos and texts to out kids and having all the wonderful apps available for anything you want. We have an Apple TV and stream music and video to our 4K TV seamlessly. There are still old school things I love though, like my 1978 Sansui AU-717 stereo amp and Goodmans speakers, through which we play the TV and digital music. The combination of analogue stereo gear from the golden age and digital music is the best of both worlds in my opinion. I've been there and done that with LPs and don't have them any more.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:24 PM
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You're right, there's a yuge hole in that visor! :-)

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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"Hated it actually. I read a year later that a Ford representative said that they discovered the drivers really do prefer knobs and real switches that one can easily use to adjust things, not menu driven touch screens."

Agree Mr Del... The three knobs below the gear selection device are the DNA controller, the main screen selection device, and the small knob to the far right s the control for the radio. Really handy - excuse the pun. The screen controller works well and seemed intuitive but, it requires more manipulation than I care for. I didn't try the nav but initial review of the display sucked. IDK how adjustable the display is but I much prefer my Garmin. In fairness to FCA, this is possibly my issue as I am only used to the Garmin units. ciao, chris
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Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
jc96 is online now  
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