Cylinder Head - Retaining nut - Degree Torque Tool Info - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 10-06-2007, 10:58 AM
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Cylinder Head - Retaining nut - Degree Torque Tool Info

Alfa 164 24v Special Tool listing in Tech bulletin manual lists USAG #830 tool to be used between 1/2" drive 19mm socket adapter and torque wrench or 1/2" breaker bar.

Attached picture shows USAG tool 830 and attached link shows Snap On Tool.

Click here: TA360, Torque Angle Gauge, 1/2" Square Drive http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

Also found info where Honda uses it on NSX engine see attached picture.

You should be able can use a degree wheel attached to socket adapter with movable pointer attached to head being torqued to read 240 degrees after you torque all head retaining nuts to initial 18.4 ft lbs in sequence shown in shop manual.

It would be interesting to have somebody use the Snap on tool and a calibrated digital or dial or pointer needle type torque wrench together to see what 240 degrees after initial 18.4 ft lbs is set is in ft lbs.

Anybody done it? If so please report your findings.
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Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 10-06-2007 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:26 AM
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Thanks, Steve.
I'll try a find one locally.
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john.harrill View Post
Thanks, Steve.
I'll try a find one locally.
You can order on line, too. Might be a nice tool to add to collection.
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SOLD MY91 "Bianco" 164B 5-speed [My Originale], ALFISTO Movin On!
Also gone are Old Blue 91 164L, Rosso1 93 164L, Rosso2 91 164S; QS2 164L

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:36 AM
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I'm curious why this tool is needed?
Isn't the ft/lb specification sufficient?

What is the concept behind using this tool?
Where is it used on a 164?
Where are the specifications for use of this tool on a 164? (i.e. for this nut use this angle setting after this # of ft/lbs)

I want an excuse to buy a new tool....
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianthegood View Post
I'm curious why this tool is needed?
Isn't the ft/lb specification sufficient?

What is the concept behind using this tool?
Where is it used on a 164?
Where are the specifications for use of this tool on a 164? (i.e. for this nut use this angle setting after this # of ft/lbs)

I want an excuse to buy a new tool....
TDG is called for to torque heads on 24v engines see 24v shop manual. It calls for initial torque setting of 18.4 ft lbs to set heads and gaskets. then using torque degree angle gauge you torque heads to an additional 240 degrees +/- 1 degree. Actual torque valve not given.
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Virginia Beach, VA
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http://www.aroc-usa.org/ click on tech advisors to contact me by email for tech advice or use this AlfaBB 164 section or an alfabb Private Mail.

Daily drivers: USA models - 91 164L w/AT "Black Beauty I" ALFA4ME; 91 164S Black Beauty II ALFALFA

SOLD MY91 "Bianco" 164B 5-speed [My Originale], ALFISTO Movin On!
Also gone are Old Blue 91 164L, Rosso1 93 164L, Rosso2 91 164S; QS2 164L

Daughter's current ride: Her Granddads 2002 Ford Taurus

Current Car hauler and Parts chaser : 2000 Dodge Ram PU 5.2L V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:41 PM
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This method is more accurate for torquing nuts and bolts, as it eliminates the variations and uncertainties of torque wrench readings due to friction. The tension developed within the bolt or stud by using torque applied by a specific rotation of a nut or bold for so many degrees is not altered by friction.

The developed tension load in stud or bolt = [cross section area of the stud or bolt]x[modulus of elasticity of the stud or bolt material]x[delta (change in length of the stud or bolt by the applied load due to the specific degrees of rotation of the bolt or nut)] all divided by [length of the stud or bolt].

or: P = AE(delta L)/L

You can see that there is no way for friction of the threads to enter into the developed tension in the stud or bolt, thus torquing this way (to develop a specific tension in the stud or bolt) is much more desirable.
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Last edited by Del; 04-14-2009 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:31 PM
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I always find the NASA method on the ISS (when watching NASA TV) interesting. They just report how many turns they put on a fastener. I guess they do some figuring on the ground and determine if that many turns is sufficient for that fastener at that particular time in orbit (considering temp at the time)? I also notice that it doesn't always work well for them. Fasteners do strip and freeze-up, etc. Must be so much more fun removing a stuck fastener will wearing a spacesuit! Got to watch the cursing too!
Charles
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:57 PM
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That's the funny thing about space. It does weird things to lubricants, or lack thereof.
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Old 04-17-2009, 04:28 AM
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Good Morning

Ultimate Garage sells the FACOM Torque angle protractor tool.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/facomnew/d360l.jpg

for $145.00.
Would this be another alternative?
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:26 AM
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Hi out there,i am a new member(just subscribed).I would like to buy a 164 2.0 super v6 tb 1993 model and i need some info from a guy with knowledge on this car,about spare parts availability.I want this car for daily use.The specific car is blue,so i suppose is an L(i'll check the serial numbers also).
Thank you
Anhel,Greece
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:49 AM
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How about protractor and a piece of cardboard?? Use the handle of the wrench as the pointer, or attach a suitable pointer to the handle. Tape The template in place when you get to the spot where you need to determine the angle.. Hell, you could estimate it within about 10-15deg by eye. A simple template and careful positioning can get about 1 deg accuracy. No need to buy a special tool
for a one or two time application. Did the same thing for another similar application.

I used a round piece of Mat board and a protractor to make the proper angle
made a hole at the vertex that went around the socket with a very close fit.
used the above method. Took 5-10 minutes to make the tool.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:47 AM
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From al cheapo garage ...

... for those on a budget :

Economic torque angle gauge AC360, $0 + shipping (extension not included)
- accuracy guaranteed to match 100% of your eye sight and coordination !

Bonus offer:
Will include a hard copy of my Torque vs Angle Chart for the 24V engine - absolutely free!

.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:48 AM
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It's Thing of Beeeuwty
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