found a 1991 Alfa 164, crank, no start

[jeffrey]

Hi

Have chance to buy pretty clean 1991 Alfa 164. however, engine just cranks, no start. figure it would be timing, spark, or fuel issue. have not diagnosed yet. I was going to check for voltage at the fuel pump relay. need to know which relay it is. Also, if car needs a fuel pump, does the tank need to be dropped in order to replace?? are these cars notorious for fuel pumps?? trying to rule out what problem could be

Second question, does anyone know how many of these 164s were imported into the US from 1991 to 1995?

tHIRDLY, BEING FRONT WHEEL DRIVE, AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, ARE THESE CARS FUN TO DRIVE?? pLEASE LET ME KNOW, WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYBODY IS IN THE NC AREA, RALEIGH/DURHAM, THANKS

JEFF

[elite38868]

Jeff,

First verify if you have spark, then verify the cams are set correctly, THEN worry about the fuel, if it's an issue at all. These cars, to my knowledge, don't go through fuel pumps very often.

You can check the 164digest for exact numbers or use this forum's search button.

These are probably the most capable cars of their time. Even the automatic transmission is fun. They are definitely a fun, fast, and comfortable car. If I want to be going 140mph, I want it to be in an Alfa.

[MrT]

Crank, no-start conditions are commonly due to fuel or spark delivery. When I get an unknown condition 164, the first thing I do is check the cam timing with Rick164L's cam template from the board here. You can search through Rick's posts (find all of Rick164L's posts; the template is in 2004, I think.)

As Sean says, check for spark (inductive timing light works wonders) to verify crank sensor works and ECU thinks all is well. Ignition timing is rarely the problem if the crank sensor is OK. One recent poster had had the Previous Owner mis-connect the fuel lines on the engine, resulting in a crank, no-start condition from lack of fuel delivery (supply line inadvertently connected to return line, resulting in bypassed fuel pressure regulator and insignificant fuel pressure at injector rail).

I've personally suffered through such things resulting from the condition of the distributor cap or rotor. Check those. The graphite center pin erodes and can powder the dist cap inside surface with nice conductive graphite dust. This is a bad thing for the ignition system. With your timing light, compare the signal on the coil lead vs. that on the engine plug leads. If you are getting coil spark and not engine spark, that points pretty well to the dist. or to the dist. wires.

Fuel pressure is usually one of the later things to check. Too much air leaking around various hoses/gaskets is another favorite way to keep the engine from starting.

Hope this helps....

Michael

[Richard2]

One of the most common problems that causes a no start condition is the temperature sensor connector located under the upper heater hose at the thermostat. It's the Bosch connector, not the spade one. Some times one of the little spades inside the connector gets loose, not making contact, sometimes the wires are pulled tight causing a bad connection. The wiring harness is a little tight in this area.

A good running 164 can be kept reliable by changing oil regularly, keeping coolant in it, changing the timing belt every 30,000 and the water pump everyother timing belt change. Getting a newly purchased one reliable may require much more.

[MrT]

Richard is right about the temp sensor. Disconnecting it is reported to cause the car not to start. Having it be too resistive commonly means hard hot-starting because the ECU gets confused, thinks the engine is really cold, and over-compensates with extra fuel for a non-cold cold start. This floods the engine. I didn't mention it as I usually think of this as a hard hot-start troubleshooting issue. But a really bad connection can reportedly disable all starts (I've never tested this). As I do not recall the temp ranges vs. impedance, use the search feature for getting this information. "Ohm ohms" as keywords (or) would probably get you the relavant posts. But cleaning the contacts would be good. I've suffered from a poor seating of the contacts in the Bosch 2-pin socket, in which the contact clips recede and do not even make up well when the socket is properly seated. This I found when I replaced the socket, but too late to remedy it most neatly, as I'd already clipped the wires to the old socket. But do look.

Michael