Q4 transaxle also used in N. American GM cars?

sonny · #1 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 10:52 AM

I was looking at eBay Italy auction 110419758082 for a Getrag 6-speed gearbox for the 164 Q4.

It says that the code for this product is GETRAG 282.7.8107.92 (also stamped on the casing)

Just for the heck of it, I Googled "Getrag 282". The first hit was a Wikipedia page for "Getrag 282 Transmission", which states:

The Getrag 282 transmission was a 5-speed manual transaxle designed by Getrag. It is sometimes referred to as the Muncie 282 or the Muncie Getrag 282, as the design was licensed to General Motors for manufacture by Muncie (Getrag never built the 282). It has been used in various front-wheel drive transverse engine applications including the Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunbird, Pontiac Grand Am,Chevrolet Beretta and the Oldsmobile Achieva. It was also used in the mid-engined rear-wheel drive Pontiac Fiero. In its later years, the Getrag 282 was manufactured by New Venture Gear and renamed the NVG T550.

I also googled a few pictures of the North American 282 transaxle, and it certainly looks like the pictures (below) in the Italian Ebay auction. Maybe they are close siblings except for the 6 gears and the power take-off.

Why is this information important? Q4 owners (and those using Q4 gearboxes in FWD 164s) have a problem because Alfa regards the Getrag tranny as a single replaceable unit. There are no exploded diagrams, spare parts, or repair tools. Maybe the crossover usage provides some of these.

**Alfissimo Int.** · #2 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonny

I was looking at eBay Italy auction 110419758082 for a Getrag 6-speed gearbox for the 164 Q4.

It says that the code for this product is GETRAG 282.7.8107.92 (also stamped on the casing)

Just for the heck of it, I Googled "Getrag 282". The first hit was a Wikipedia page for "Getrag 282 Transmission", which states:

The Getrag 282 transmission was a 5-speed manual transaxle designed by Getrag. It is sometimes referred to as the Muncie 282 or the Muncie Getrag 282, as the design was licensed to General Motors for manufacture by Muncie (Getrag never built the 282). It has been used in various front-wheel drive transverse engine applications including the Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunbird, Pontiac Grand Am,Chevrolet Beretta and the Oldsmobile Achieva. It was also used in the mid-engined rear-wheel drive Pontiac Fiero. In its later years, the Getrag 282 was manufactured by New Venture Gear and renamed the NVG T550.

I also googled a few pictures of the North American 282 transaxle, and it certainly looks like the pictures (below) in the Italian Ebay auction. Maybe they are close siblings except for the 6 gears and the power take-off.

Why is this information important? Q4 owners (and those using Q4 gearboxes in FWD 164s) have a problem because Alfa regards the Getrag tranny as a single replaceable unit. There are no exploded diagrams, spare parts, or repair tools. Maybe the crossover usage provides some of these.

**ChazzyD** · #3 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 01:03 PM

I don't think that will do a Q4 owner much good. Judging by the Fiat/Alfa/Lancia logos molded into the thing, it looks like it was built by them and not Getrag. The Wiki also states that Getrag never built this thing, only designed and licensed out the design. Most likely Alfa did as they wished beyond the core design and tailored it to their needs such as, gearing, bellhousing, input shaft, diff, PTO for rear drive, etc, etc. So technically all the details are Alfa and only a 282 Getrag at its core. That's my speculation on it but doesn't mean that a few parts at its core are not available for a rebuild. I did find a Fiero forum with a guy rebuilding one, just no telling what things might be Q4 spec only, beyond the obvious things, with Alfa not giving any clues. I would start looking for a GM car Getrag 282 repair manual though, if contemplating what this might mean for a Q4 owner looking to tear-down or get into their Alfa tranny. Still would be a tall task to figure out what is different and what is (or might be) the same.
Charles

sonny · #4 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Notwithstanding that the Q4 tranny has the Fiat corporate logo on it, I think it was built by Getrag. I am basing this on statements made in private by an automotive engineer who has worked for Alfa (he said that Getrag ended up with a large stock of these trannies, which is why they can be had so relatively cheap these days).

Except for the Muncie 282 story, I think it is generally Getrag's business model to supply transmissions rather than license designs. My thinking is based in part on what seems to apply to the use of a Getrag transmission/transfer case in the early 1990's Mitsubishi Eclipse.

1991 MITSUBISHI 3000GT 91 > Manual Transmission

NHTSA got a lot of complaints from people who realized their trannies couldn't be repaired but required a complete new replacement.

**ChazzyD** · #5 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 01:38 PM

Sounds very plausible that if Alfa didn't build them, then that is a good reason why they also wouldn't have any parts for them. Time to buy a new one for a spare?
Charles

Series8217 · #6 (**permalink**) 01-03-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonny

I was looking at eBay Italy auction 110419758082 for a Getrag 6-speed gearbox for the 164 Q4.
[...]
I also googled a few pictures of the North American 282 transaxle, and it certainly looks like the pictures (below) in the Italian Ebay auction. Maybe they are close siblings except for the 6 gears and the power take-off.

164 FAMILY · #7 (**permalink**) 01-03-2010, 09:00 PM

I have done many GM tranny swaps and they are not the same. Same manufacturing co maybe but it is not the same. But nice thought though.