1994 5-Speed 164 Q Gearbox Into 1991 164 L; Issues;

junglejustice · #1 (**permalink**) 10-17-2009, 10:46 PM

So, some buddies up the street (the two crazies who installed the SAAB 2.3 Turbo motor into the 164 B), bought a 1994 Q gearbox to install in a 1991 B/L 12 valve car that they have over there. (The differential puked it's guts out all over the freeway the other day as they sometimes do)!

But, they are having some issues and - naturally - some ensuing questions. I'm trying to help them out a bit - they're having some issues with the clutch function (but with the gearbox already bolted in, I'm having to play catch-up a bit here to try and figure it all out)!

In short order;

There's the 1991 engine and the 1994 5-speed manual gearbox in an L chassis.
There are - what would seem to be - two different vertical pivot-shafts (one is inside now already and I can't tell).
There are two different horizontal pivot-arms for sure!
There are two different slave cylinder mounting brackets.

We have options on the horizontal pivot-arms right now, but none for the moment on the vertical pivot-shafts (since that is already in there)!

It seems that they left the 24 valve vertical pivot-shaft in there, but we can still interchange the horizontal pivot-arms on the outside as well as the slave-cylinder mounting brackets, which are external as well. The splines on the pivot-arms are 180 degrees opposite though!

It would also appear that they have used the 12 valve clutch, pressure-plate, fly-wheel and throw-out/thrust-bearing on the inside for now and they would like to not have to remove it all for now! Any thoughts? Modify the arm?

racingswim2006 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-17-2009, 11:42 PM

JJ -
For the Q box original setup: clutch fork, clutch assembly, slave cyl, slave cyl. bracket different from B/L.

If using B/L clutch with wrong pivot arm/fork from 24V clutch/box, it will not operate properly (push vs. pull operation). The push style clutch needs the T/O bearing clipped onto it otherwise it will be loose (it doesn't latch into pressure plate like the S/LS24V T/O bearing).

They will need to pull box off again to be sure that everything is correct.

Need to use all clutch stuff from B/L or all from S/LS as far as I can tell - otherwise issues will arise. T/O bearing will probably be destroyed at minimum if arm "modified."

**Richard2** · #3 (**permalink**) 10-18-2009, 07:55 AM

The "Q" has basically the same clutch as the "S". You can't mix and match "L" clutch with it. It's all or nothing. If your using the Q setup, you need Q Disc and pressure plate, and slave cylinder, bracket and the push rod.

**Alfisto Steve** · #4 (**permalink**) 10-18-2009, 08:48 AM

If they are still using the B/L push clutch set up on engine, and if they still have the old L tranny they need to pull back out the Q tranny and swap release arm set up and slave bracket/cylinder from L tranny into Q one.

They also have the reverse lock out cable set up on the Q box to work into the equation.

junglejustice · #5 (**permalink**) 10-19-2009, 08:50 AM

Hhmmm....

With the 12v clutch, 12v thrust-bearing, 24v gearbox and the 24v vertical pivot-shaft, the throw-out function is still "operational" right now (they are able to push the thrust-bearing out against standard "heavy" spring effort with a pry-bar andf with one of the horizontal pivot-arms on there) - rotating the 24v vertical pivot-shaft counter-clock-wise!

The splines on one horizontal arm is 180 degrees off though, on the other it is just barely off. Their thinking is that they could simply "re-spline" one groove where the flat "lock-out" surface is on the inside of the one arm and clock it about 5 degrees to make it work with the 24v pivot shaft that is in there. Who knows what's going on inside with the thrust-bearing though!?

I'm going to advise them to pull it, but what can you expect them to do (after all, these are a couple of guys who just converted a SAAB 2.3 Turbo motor into a 164...)

racingswim2006 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2009, 10:24 AM

Yes, have them pull it. If that T/O bearing not hitting exactly square like B/L arm would push it, imagine what would happen after repeated shifts and use when clutch spinning thousands of RPM.

junglejustice · #7 (**permalink**) 11-05-2009, 01:17 PM

Well, they didn't have to pull it after all...!

they cut one spline groove in the horizontal external arm, re-clocked the direction and it works 100%

So, 24 gearbox and 24v vertical shaft, with the 164 L style clutch, thrust-bearing, pressure-plate and 12v slave cylinder arm reworked a bit worked just fine... Good on them!