more pictures of timing belt install process

OK moving on with pix 6-10
6 - The back side of good tensioner with tight and good outer spring.
7- Dial indicator set to 0 top dead center #1 cylinder closest to upper dog bone motor mount.
8- Rear head cam timing marks on cam bearing cap.
9- Front head cam timing marks on cam bearing cap.
10- Rick's timing template showing same cam timing 69 and 72.5 degree marks using scribed marks on cam pulley hubs.

 

More pictures setting up AR 164 12v V6 timing belt

Pictures 11-15 of timing belt set up process:

11- Rick's template close up.
12- crank pulley top dead center marks.
13- tensioner set up using needelnose to rotate as you lift lug to prevent snapping outer spring, Lift enough to line up pointer on tensioner pulley just slightly below index mark on tensioner body as shown in picture.
14- showing closer shot of tensioner and tools aka 3-tool armed 164 mech in action shot.
15- Whew! tools at rest.

Tighten 13mm nuts to less than 15 ft lbs (180 inch lbs) of torque to hold tensioner in place.

 

Final 5 of timing belt process on Old Nero's engine

Finale pix of process:

16- Another tool shot and intake tubes removed to get rear cam cover off. Spark Plugs removed to ease manual turning of engine.
17- Picture of crank pulley removed BUT NOT NEEDED to get belt off and one. Just for added clarity. IF you do take nut and crank pulley off with air impact gun be sure you use blue (not red) locite on nut, tighten with air impact gun and stake nut with hammer and punch in key groove when reinstalling.
18- Picture of Old Nero's engine a little more assembled.

Have a nice Alfa 164 day!

 

Nice pics Steve - you certainly put some time into this for us.

After five years, I've learned (thanks to your first pics) that the mechanical tensioner I put back on my original Singapore-import 164 had a broken outer spring. I remember being able to get the pointer near the reference mark once I tensioned the belt, but the pointer was all over the place and the belt was never very tight. Strange thing is, that engine was still running a year ago (saw my 'old' car at Alfa specialists for a power steering rack replacement).

All three of my current 164s have oil-fed tensioners which I'll be sticking with on Jason's advice.

I now have an '89 in need of TLC. I wanted to do a little more than just a belt replacement, as there are a variety of oil leaks at the top end (as you know) and the valve stem seals usually don't seem to work well on 20-year-old engines, so the backs of the valves are probably coked up and I'm sure I saw a puff or two of blue smoke.

I've decided to remove heads from my '89 to do a valve job and replace leaky cam pulley seals, and set up valve clearances (valve gear is noisy). With the bottom end OK and relatively oil-tight (compared to my '91), I don't think there's any reason to take the engine out (though I do have to take gearbox off to change the clutch). Maybe part-way into the head removal I'll think differently.

So, thanks for the inspiration of how it goes together. Can't wait to get stuck into this when I get home in a week's time. I admire your nice clean engine and that bottom pulley isn't rusty cast iron any more (did you leave your son unsupervised again?) Though, I'm surprised to learn the belt can come out of that aluminium housing with the pulley in place. I remember having to buy a 41mm socket just so that I could get the belt off my original 164 that first time I changed the belt.

-Alex

 

I also used hydraulic tensioner on my other spare engine that has only 6000 miles on it's inards. I built it up last winter using a new used uncracked block, too. Haven't got as far with it as this one. I hope to test run both engines this fall when weather cooler and I have more time.

Guess your fall has past and winter is fast approaching down under? We are approaching super heat mode in Northern Hemisphere.

 

Depends where in Southern Hemisphere you are...! Here in Pretoria South Africa it is "really cold" according to the locals, daytime temperature as low as 16 degrees C, it rained the other day for HOURS, and at night it's right down to 6 or 7 degrees C.

When I left home in NZ a week ago, overnight temperature was -4, daytime temperature barely 10 degrees, rain for days on end (admittedly that does kill the frost, temperature those nights stays up at about 4). So yes, winter is there.

Internal access garage is going to be tight for working on the 164, especially as I now have an engine crane and spare engine/transmission in the same garage. But I'm sure as anything not going to do this job outside, and the FIAT Spider occupies the other garage I could use. Best solution is probably to migrate other junk from 'house' garage to outside garage to clear space. Who needs a washing machine anyway...

I also have body and paintwork to do on this 164 (which is a familiar challenge in winter), but I know it will be satisfying to bring it back to life and to show it to the previous owner (who almost shed a tear when I said I was going to use his 164 as a 'parts' car).

-Alex

 

Ok so how hard is it......

Im looking to buy a 91 164 but it needs a new timing belt. How hard is that to fix? Is it worth to fix? And how much would the cost be? Im a beginners mechanic I dont know too much about mechanics but I always learn to figure out how to fix them. i would appreciate ne tips thankyou. How hard would it be especially if I didnt have the engine out?

 

What do you mean by needing a timing belt?

Im looking to buy a 91 164 but it needs a new timing belt. How hard is that to fix? Is it worth to fix? And how much would the cost be? Im a beginners mechanic I dont know too much about mechanics but I always learn to figure out how to fix them. i would appreciate ne tips thankyou. How hard would it be especially if I didnt have the engine out?

Does it have one now? Is it just due to be changed or has it slipped or broke?

Need more input to answer your question.

 

The timing belt is broke......it needs a new one

 

It needs more than just a belt then...

 

Help with a 24V Timing Belt replacement

Hi Steve, Great post on the 12V timing belt change. Any chance you have something like this for the 24V? Any info would be greatlt appreciated.

Thanks!
Joe D

 

See this story of John's 24v timing cams amd tensioning belt:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/26599-24v-timing-belt-questions.html

 

Thanks a bunch Steve. I was searching this forum last night, and found the story on "Myron's 95LS water pump leaking", since I intend to change the water pump as well. From reading this story, I got the impression that changing the pump will cause you to lose the TDC settings on the cam shafts thus making it absolutely a must to use the cam locks. Why is this the case? Can the job be done without cam locks?

 

If cams are in time going into water pump change and you can clamp cam pulleys in place before removing timing belt to get water pump off then maybe.

Does your car idle fine now and appear to be in time? The only way to know for sure is to remove intake, coil paks, valve covers and try to read markings on rear of cams and heads. If you don't have timing dies and if you can make heads and tails out of markings on rear of cams YES you can then adjust/lock cams in place maybe with visegrips/clamps/etc.

Send me a PM.

 

I am changing the timing belt, water pump, and all the other belts on my 164L and I have a question.

Obviously there are timing marks on the crank and on each of the heads, but there is one other pulley that the timing belt wraps around that I haven't found any timing marks on or any mention of what position that specific pulley should be in when the engine is in TDC. There is a green arrow pointing to that specific pulley in the picture. Does that one need to be in a specific orientation?

Also just curious, what is the size of the socket that you need to turn the crank?

 

That's the oil pump drive. No timing needed. It works anywhere. One less thing to worry about. The cam and crank positions are critical though. Make sure they are spot on

 

Socket size is 1 5/8" aka 41mm.

No timing needed on that lower rear aux shaft oil pump drive pulley on a 164 12v engine since there isn't a distributor setting on top of rear head like on a GTV6 or Milano.

 

Hi I've just been reading alfistosteves info on cambelt change using template. I have a 92 164 clover12v and today the car has developed a knocking sound which is loudest at the front cam pulley , with the engine running the belt also looks a little loose between cam pulleys can anyone please help

 

The car has also been lumpy on idle? But has been getting worse could this be idler related ? I've not done a cambelt change before I guess first thing to do would be to take off covers and take a look?

 

Verify cam timing first and then we will comment more.

 

Ok thanks. I've found that the tensioner is shot and the bearings have fallen out. This has the hydraulic tensioner which I can't get hold of as is leaking at seal, the tensioner available is the fixed type so not sure to purchase this. I also have no markings on cam pulleys so assume I have to remove covers for thes, I'm guessing that the belt may have jumped

 

What country are you in? The timing marks are on the outerface of the cam pulley. Sometimes the marks can be very faint, but they should be there. You may have to buff the outer surface of the cam pulley with some steel wool, or sand paper to see them.

 

Ok thanks a lot for that info I'm in England. I will try cleaning up the pulleys to see marks, in any case will I have to remove covers ?

 

Fixed tensioners work just fine, but if it s the non fixed mechanical tensioner your talking about, I d rebuild your hydraulic one. I think you ll be much happier with it in the long run.

 

Also I found that the hydraulic tensioner is leaking and clearly has been for some time can I remove this and block the holes? I have found a new belt and tension online

 

Here's a pic

 

Can you post the link to the tensioner you found? I d like to see which one it is.

 

I can t bring up that image on my old iPad. I ll see it when I get home later