Looks like a Mustang! - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 05-13-2009, 12:47 PM
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Looks like a Mustang!

Just had a deck builder guy aka minivan driver over for a look at some plans for some deck work at my other house.

He ask what do you do sell cars? He saw many car covers and my beloved 164B uncovered and ask was it a Mustang like alike. How in the heck does a 164 look like a Stang?

He ask is Nero aka 164L under car cover a Kadiallyac. Nice guy with some real helpful hints on deck building but clueless on cars.

Important to give him credit where credit due on building codes, dealing with city on permits, etc.

Everybody can contribute in their own way so I am not really knocking the guy.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:25 PM
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Cadillac and 164 I might get. The Allante and the 164 are cousins. Mustang, yeah, not seeing that. Sorry.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:41 PM
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Looks like a Thunderbird!

I always thought that my 164L looked like a sedan version of the mid-90's T Bird - especially when viewed from the side, and you focus on the roof profile and sloping hood. So, Mustang Thuderbird they're both Ford products, right?
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:45 PM
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Jay, the T-bird in that picture has wheels that are a little reminiscent of 164S wheels
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:51 PM
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Boy, you guys are really reaching!!
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:17 PM
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I don't know. The Asian car companies copy the Italians all time. Not unreasonable Detroit might do it, too.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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Steve-
You're right...he has his expertise,you have yours.
Years ago we remodeled a kitchen and added a bathroom on a nice house. My wife wanted me to do the cabinets, but I told her the worst thing would be if someone asked "Did you build the cabinets?"
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:03 PM
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I drove my X1/9 to the Volvo dealership one time and a tech out front asked "Hey man what is that?" I said..."A Volvo!" He looked at it and said "really!!"
Heck the headlamps pop up just like an X right?
Now that I look at them they look like the same car......

Paul
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:04 PM
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Should have kept it.....sigh!
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Alfas owned/own!
81 GTV-6
83 GTV-6
86 GTV-6
87 Milano Gold
88 Milano Verde
91 164S
77 Alfetta sedan
79 Alfetta GTV(smooshed and ground up)
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:14 AM
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Haha - that's a good one, both examples of the same car but one a Cadillac and the other a Mustang!

There is one car I could understand confusion with (as I've even mixed them up myself) and that's the Peugeot 605 (below). I think you'll see that the windowline and proportions are similar, though the 164 is a little higher-waisted. Not a common mistake though, as there's really few 605s around!

The smaller 405 is not so similar but people do mix that up with a 164 as well. Seems like a charicature to me - shorter and taller, it lacks the cohesion in the details like bumpers and door handles.


I was told my 164 looks like a Honda, too (Legend? Ascot?) I think this is on account of the chrome grille outline. To some people, just being the same colour and four doors is sufficient.

On the subject of the X1/9 - I think the worst I've had was the large number of people who thought my X1/9 (last picture) was a TR7. And the even larger number of people that thought it was an MR2. I got sick of that. Does a pear look like an apple? Do they really look the same? And even if they do look the same, ARE they the same?!

Don't get me wrong here... in my opinion, the MR2 is a nicely-engineered car, better made than the FIAT/Bertone - more refined, faster. Something FIAT should have made. On the other hand, the TR7 is a horrible old hunk of British iron and the engine's at the front driving the rear wheels, yet there's all that dead-weight at the back end of the styling

-Alex
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Last edited by AlexGS; 05-14-2009 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:32 AM
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So let's run with this Look Alike thing awhile, OK?

I agree there are a lot of cars that have a hint of Pinin design in them cause his Italian design rocks.

Many folks can't believe my 164 is an "old" 1991. Just look at new Mercs, Bimmers, Jags and the Asian current offerings, too.

The jelly bean and box shapes had their runs, but they never did much for me.

There really are some nice liking to the 164 shape offerings on the market now.

I always thought his 405 design really just a mini 164.

Your comments please.
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My Maintenance Sticky: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-...ance-tips.html

Daily drivers: USA models - 91 164L w/AT "Black Beauty I" ALFA4ME; 91 164S Black Beauty II ALFALFA

SOLD MY91 "Bianco" 164B 5-speed [My Originale], ALFISTO Movin On!
Also gone are Old Blue 91 164L, Rosso1 93 164L, Rosso2 91 164S; QS2 164L

Daughter's current ride: Her Granddads 2002 Ford Taurus

Current Car hauler and Parts chaser : 2000 Dodge Ram PU 5.2L V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 05-14-2009 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve View Post
I always thought his 405 design really just a mini 164.

Your comments please.
Hehe... well, I posted a picture of a 405 above. I can see the similarity but I think you'll agree the 605 is closer? The 405 was/is a very nice car, well-made and great to drive.

I always thought it was interesting that the 166 needed a significant facelift only a few years into its life. A friend of mine likened my 166 to his Mazda MX-6 (!) - 2003 compared against 1994 - and concluded that the 166 was 'a 90's design showing its age'. The 2004 166 had a more modern look but really, it is a concern when a design ages so badly.

The sculpted sides of the 166 were nice, but the front end was too droopy and ovalised - like that Ford someone posted earlier in the thread - in recent years we've seen some crisp-cut surfaces coming back into fashion. For me, the beauty of the 164 lies in its proportions. Details items like the headlights may date (and they did), some of the 164's shape was looking a bit square by the standards of the day (think Mazda 929) and there will always be people who don't like the strip of red tail-lights right across...

...but at the end of the day, I don't think you can argue that the proportions of the 164 are anything other than elegant - the way the rear doors are a similar size to the fronts (rather than an afterthought), the tapering of the sills and bumpers, the low bonnet line pulled tight over the wheelarches, the curve of the windscreen pillars, etc. etc. It wouldn't take much to 'facelift' the 164 and make it look just as nice today.

For an example of un-elegant four-door-saloon proportions, see

(Aston Martin Lagonda). To me, that looks like the thing you might get in a 'first sketch' during high school English, where you run out of space on the paper before you finish the rear doors. Actually, for such a large car with a V8 engine (I thought it was a V12 but turns out it's only an 8), I think the front doors needed to be longer as well, the window line is a joke (look at that space behind the front wheels - ugly!) The whole mid-section could stand to be stretched by the length of a rear door... I know the AM Lagonda (William Towns) is older than the 164, and therefore you might expect details to be different, but age is no excuse for shonky proportions! I think this makes us even more appreciative of Pininfarina's efforts.

The 166 had very similar proportions to the 164, so I think someone else thought along the same lines that I did (that proportions were the most important). We should also remember that the 166 was an in-house effort, rather than being by Pininfarina.

-Alex
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Last edited by AlexGS; 05-14-2009 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:42 AM
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Wow! That Aston brings back a horrible memory!
I was at a buddies shop and he was trying to figure out a noise. The customer stated that there was a noise near the passenger footwell that started out at around 100 mph and got worse as the car went faster.
Well.... have you ever ridden in a car going over 100 with your head on the floor board and your feet on the headrest?
Won't do that again!!
I did find the noise though.
They look almost worse from the front! Especially with the two piece hood. YUK!

Paul
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The meek shall inherit the rear view mirror.

Alfas owned/own!
81 GTV-6
83 GTV-6
86 GTV-6
87 Milano Gold
88 Milano Verde
91 164S
77 Alfetta sedan
79 Alfetta GTV(smooshed and ground up)

Last edited by gt601; 05-14-2009 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:31 AM
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Speaking of japanese stealing Italian desgins. The Acura TL is a total steal of the 164.


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Old 05-14-2009, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for sharing the mystery-noise story - quite a big deal in a car that price, I bet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt601 View Post
They look almost worse from the front! Especially with the two piece hood. YUK!
Yes. Here we have all the expensive ingredients for a striking and beautiful car - but without the input of Pininfarina, it comes to that jumble of angles when seen from the front three-quarter. The real test of car styling is whether it looks equally good from all angles.

Something like my FIAT Uno is the polar opposite to the Lagonda. There are almost none of the ingredients for a striking and beautiful car, but thanks to input from Giorgetto Guigaro, the result is at least simple, efficient, clean and pleasant, AND cheap to produce (if not everyone's cup of tea).

That's what defines great car design, in my view - it's about how much is achieved within the constraints. By my metric, therefore, it's possible for a 164 to be as 'great' as a Ferrari, since the Ferrari has very much more of the 'ingredients' to be beautiful - cost is no object, passenger space does not matter, and the engine is in the optimum location. Of course, a modern Ferrari probably has far more constraints than those applied to, say, the 512 Berlinetta Boxer. I don't think car design is EVER easy...

-Alex
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