Timing Belt Options - Gates, Pirelli, ???

DPDISXR4Ti · #1 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 09:51 AM

Recently seeing an ad for Gates Racing Timing Belts (the blue ones), I went looking to see if perhaps they were available for the Alfa V6. I didn't expect them to be, and I was correct. BTW, here's a link and excerpt of what I'm talking about...
Gates Racing
Yes, the color gives you a hot custom look. But look deeper. Constructed of HNBR elastomeric composites, Gates Racing Performance Timing Belts are 300% stronger than stock belts and deliver up to three times the heat resistance. You can count on them to hold up to the rigors of high horsepower, even with interference engines.

So I'll assume there's no plan to make this type of belt available for the Alfa V6, but it did get me to thinking about which different belts are available, and which might be "best". I believe the current factory belt (p/n 60562106) is a Pirelli, but who else makes one, and does anyone have any data to back up why one might be better than another?

Barring that, who wants to organize the appeal to Gates to have them start making their blue belts for the Alfa?

DPDISXR4Ti · #2 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 12:45 PM

Not surprisingly, here's the response I got from Gates....

After checking the OE number it is a low volume application to where we do not offer the racing belt nor are the vehicle numerous high enough to warrant production at this time, If we can be of any further assistance please let us know.

Feel free to try to convince them otherwise...

Contact Us | Gates Corporation

**Alfissimo Int.** · #3 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPDISXR4Ti

Recently seeing an ad for Gates Racing Timing Belts (the blue ones), I went looking to see if perhaps they were available for the Alfa V6. I didn't expect them to be, and I was correct. BTW, here's a link and excerpt of what I'm talking about...
Gates Racing
Yes, the color gives you a hot custom look. But look deeper. Constructed of HNBR elastomeric composites, Gates Racing Performance Timing Belts are 300% stronger than stock belts and deliver up to three times the heat resistance. You can count on them to hold up to the rigors of high horsepower, even with interference engines.

So I'll assume there's no plan to make this type of belt available for the Alfa V6, but it did get me to thinking about which different belts are available, and which might be "best". I believe the current factory belt (p/n 60562106) is a Pirelli, but who else makes one, and does anyone have any data to back up why one might be better than another?

Barring that, who wants to organize the appeal to Gates to have them start making their blue belts for the Alfa?

DPDISXR4Ti · #4 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the details and pics Jason. Safe to say that this belt is prehistoric?

eBay Motors: New Alfa Romeo Gtv6/Milano/91-93 164 2.5/3L timing belt (item 270320182479 end time Dec-26-08 17:52:25 PST)

**Alfissimo Int.** · #5 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPDISXR4Ti

Thanks for the details and pics Jason. Safe to say that this belt is prehistoric?

eBay Motors: New Alfa Romeo Gtv6/Milano/91-93 164 2.5/3L timing belt (item 270320182479 end time Dec-26-08 17:52:25 PST)

DPDISXR4Ti · #6 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int.

For the price of a new one, not worth taking chances on belts that have sat for years.

racingswim2006 · #7 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 09:46 PM

Jason -
Does the DAYCO belt that gets Alfa Romeo script any different from the DAYCO belt available by part number? We have a duralast/dayco timing belt sitting in the garage. Came in duralast box, has part dayco printing on it AND is made in italy (made in italy printed on belt).
Just curious if Alfa scripted belt gets special treatment or special teeth. Belt in garage has trough cut in teeth.

g84 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 11:41 PM

Been looking around for belts as well. Not that i find it an issue, just curious. For several Nissan cars you can get kevlar belts but nothing for Alfas. Just a thought, what kind of belt did Alfa use in the 155 DTM race car with the V6 was it an OEM belt, if not what kind of belt did they use. Have been searching the net for a picture of the front of the V6 DTM engine just to see how the belt, pulleys and tensioner looks like but cant find any.

JK
164 Q4 -95
146 Ti -97 coming next week

**Alfissimo Int.** · #9 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racingswim2006

Jason -
Does the DAYCO belt that gets Alfa Romeo script any different from the DAYCO belt available by part number? We have a duralast/dayco timing belt sitting in the garage. Came in duralast box, has part dayco printing on it AND is made in italy (made in italy printed on belt).
Just curious if Alfa scripted belt gets special treatment or special teeth. Belt in garage has trough cut in teeth.

DPDISXR4Ti · #10 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:15 AM

I recall that when the ARDONA tensioner/belt "recall" was done in '96 or so, they made a big deal about the belt being "new and improved", extending the maintenance interval from 30K to 50K miles (despite the rest of the industry being at 100K). Does anyone remember what belt THAT was? Just curious mostly. I am NOT suggesting that we go looking for 1996 era NOS belts!

**Alfissimo Int.** · #11 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPDISXR4Ti

I recall that when the ARDONA tensioner/belt "recall" was done in '96 or so, they made a big deal about the belt being "new and improved", extending the maintenance interval from 30K to 50K miles (despite the rest of the industry being at 100K). Does anyone remember what belt THAT was? Just curious mostly. I am NOT suggesting that we go looking for 1996 era NOS belts!

gt601 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:36 AM

Not to change the subject from timing belts...

I have (in the past) had to replace the water pump belt belt because of a shred episode. The only place that had a belt was Pep Boys (on a Sunday)
I bought the "El Cheapo" Dayco belt and it never slipped or made any noise at all. I was going to change it over when I had time to a name brand belt but since it seemed ok I kept it. I had used Continental & Goodyear Gatorback belts ans they squealed within a week or two with the Goodyear shredding. I just recently installed 3 Alfa belts cause I had them but saved the old ones 'cause they were ok.
On another note I wouldn't let the V-6 go over 30,000 because of the tensioner issues we all know about

. If you figure that most people only go 5-8,000 miles a year unless the car is a daily driver it doesn't really cost that much considering the time between changes.
Just my .02.

Paul

DPDISXR4Ti · #13 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt601

On another note I wouldn't let the V-6 go over 30,000 because of the tensioner issues we all know about

. If you figure that most people only go 5-8,000 miles a year unless the car is a daily driver it doesn't really cost that much considering the time between changes.

gt601 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 08:06 AM

I had some pretty good leaks in the past from my heads etc... The belts that always gave me issues would always have to be re-tightened within a week or so. The shredded one was user error

. I got it one groove off.woops!

**ke3ee** · #15 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 08:29 AM

The first timing belt I changed on my 93l had just over 50k on it and showed no discernable wear. The tensioner also looked and felt great compared to the new one I had purchased. I believe that there are a few things involved timing belt failure with Alfa's compared to others. I have lots of expereince with Nissan's, Honda's and a few Cosworth Vega engines. First you have to understand the difference's between belt failure and having the belt jump they are 2 different things with different causes for the most part. With todays modern materials the only 3 things that will make a belt fail are and in this order. 1. to much tension 2. dirt\chemicals 3. dry rot due to age. For timing belts to jump its normally to little tension or stress due to another failed component. Alfa's timing belt issues are caused by 2 issues. 1. tensioner not being adjusted properly or failing, we have all discussed this. But I also think its due to how the belt is routed on the engine. Most timing belts go around at least 50% of the cam gear which spreads the stress of turning the gears out over more of the belt and also holds it more secure. On our Alfa's it only spreads this tension over 25-30% of the gear, again which puts more stress on each tooth of the belt and even less on the 24v models. If Alfa would have designed a 2nd but fixed tension pulley in between the 2 timing gears but lower it would have spread out the tension by wrapping the belt around the gears more. This of course would have put the pulley down somewhere near the thermostat on a bracket of some sort, but it would have made the belt system last the 70-100k that most other's do. My Nissan V6 has a belt very similiar to the Alfa's but much longer. It has 2 tension pulleys that do what I describe above and the spec's are to change out at 105k along with the water pump, thermostat etc.. I'm not a mechanical engineer but I am an engineer and I have wondered why someone aftermarket hasnt done this for Alfa racing or high performance engines. These are my thoughts, maybe I'm missing something in the design and I'm wrong, It wouldnt be the first time. Happy Holidays Robb