1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Quadrifoglio Sedan vs 1991-1993 164-S

[Dr AlfredoRomeo]

Hi Looking for some Input from other Alfisti, In the Market for my First Alfa Romeo I Really Like the Looks of the 91-93 S Class and the 94-95 Q Class 164 My Delema is,What is the Major Difference Between Them Other Than HP 200 vs 235. Is the Overall size of the Q vs S smaller between the two cars? also is newer Better? eg: Steppers,electrics,mechanical Thanks for your Help... Dr Alfredo

[alfacupp]

The big difference is the engine. The Q has a four cam engine. This is a very powerful and smooth reving engine. With some easy mods one can get more than the 235hp. The S has a two cam engine, a single cam for each head. The exhuast values run off push rods. I owned an LS that also has the four camer this is a great engine, but it is hard on timimg belts and is big money to fix if one brakes. Any major engine work will be alot more for the four camer. There are very few Q and LS (4 camers) in this country, less than 5000 and maybe one in ten is a Q. The good news, for you, is there are quite a few up for sale lately.

[Dr AlfredoRomeo]

Well Thanks for the Heads up on the 4 Cammer, Here is another Question How often with Proper Maint does this happen? if you change your timming belts when required and other maint. Is there any advantage to the mechanicals other than the Motor like is the Steeper motor problem solved on the 94-95 and so on Thanks .........Dr Alfredo Romeo

[alfacupp]

The problem with the timing belts is they need to be changed more othen than the alfa stated mantiance. It is not just the miles but also the age. Alot of cars broke belts at under 40kmiles at 4 to 5 years old. I was told to use 30k miles and three years as a safe guild line, But get it check every 10k, or more towards the end of the 30k and three years. It is the unknown that is scary and the fact the belts don't last the stated limits.
The engine and some styling is the only thing I no of that is different. Keep in mind it is not just a difference in horse power bewteen the two, but the 4camer is also alot smoother. It revs very nice and pulls away under power like nothing else I have driven.
There is also a problem with the cells in the center console display. They go bad and start to be unreadable I am told. My car didn't do this. This is only in 94-95 models. I have aslo heard that the stepper motors on the 94-95 is better and fewer needed replacing, but can't say for sure. I was told my car had it done under warranty before I got the car. The big thing about the four camers is don't be lazy about belt mantince. Don't think I don't like these cars,(the 4 camers) I do. They are very nice cars and drive very well. Oh and fast!

[Dr AlfredoRomeo]

Thanks for the Great Input I was Wondering If there are any Aftermarket belts like Gates that would fit or could be made for the car has anyone looked into this ? Thanks Alfredo~

[generaljimt]

In addition to the engine, the 94 and 95's had some cosmetic differences. Chrome strip around the perimeter of the car above the bumpers on 94 and 95's. More prominent front grill. This led to a slightly crisper look to these cars, however, the 91-93's (which I own- a 93 L), have nicer color combinations and a more attractive dash. The tan colored interiors, if well maintained, remind you of a Ferrari inside. The quality of the leather is outstanding.

[a164s]

Just an observation from an S owner. I thought I wanted to "step up" to the 24v Q, so I test drove a couple. My S is moderately modified, so the observations may be a little off for a stock S to Q comparison.

I find the 12v S engine rawer, with more sound and fury, and the sensation of more bottom-end torque (I say sensation, as the specs say otherwise). The 24v Q engine is smoother, with less drama, but ultimately a little more speed.

The 12v is certainly less scary in the t-belt department. In the end, I think the t-belt situation for the 24v kept the S in my garage. If you really want a unique 24v 164, maybe a Q4, like Leo and tpj have would be the thing- an all wheel drive 6-speed 164.

[Dr AlfredoRomeo]

Thanks Rich for the Great Input, I am Leaning toward the 1993-S low Milage if I can Get one Thanks ........Dr Alfredo Romeo~

[e30sequel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by a164s Just an observation from an S owner. I thought I wanted to "step up" to the 24v Q, so I test drove a couple. My S is moderately modified, so the observations may be a little off for a stock S to Q comparison. I find the 12v S engine rawer, with more sound and fury, and the sensation of more bottom-end torque (I say sensation, as the specs say otherwise). The 24v Q engine is smoother, with less drama, but ultimately a little more speed. The 12v is certainly less scary in the t-belt department. In the end, I think the t-belt situation for the 24v kept the S in my garage. If you really want a unique 24v 164, maybe a Q4, like Leo and tpj have would be the thing- an all wheel drive 6-speed 164.

[Alfisto Steve]

So where have you been for almost 3 years since this thread started? I agree with you but will go one further in that I am a semi-sedate 164B driver until I get in my son's 164S or my 75 year old friend's 164LS w/AT. I am able to do enough with my B and L to smoke many an unsuspecting Bimmer, Audi or Ricer rocketeer.

I could get in trouble real fast with a steady diet of a 164S or 24v LS. I am even surer that a Q or Q4 ship would be my achilles heal.

If I would act my age I guess a new Ford Taurus would be my cup of tea. Since I have been rodding for 50+ years I guess my habits won't change but don't think that sedate sedan thing will be happening in my lifetime.

However, I chose to stay with 12v non-S because I can afford to maintain it both in repairs and court costs.

[velocedoc]

I owned a L at one time. Nice car, made me want to own another 164. I dreamed of owning a Q and fortunately one came my way that I could afford. I was fortunate again to buy a 2nd Q. Both cars are awesome to drive. Linda and I went on a "spirited" drive with some folks out of Sacramento. I gave away 2 cylinders and a lot of horsepower trying to keep up with the M series Bimmers/500 series Mecedes in the group. The car did well. First time that I really was able to open the car up. The more I drove it hard the more I came to really appreciate what a fine car Alfa Romeo has built. Other than a few quirky electricals that have cropped up the cars are very reliable. The board here is a great resource for sorting out issues, should one arise.
All I need now is a set of GTA intake cams, Squadra chip and a set of drilled discs and Porterfield pads.
Whether you choose an S or a Q, you will really enjoy the car.

Now where is there a Q for sale that someone eluded to in an earlier post?

[jontg428]

I own a 1991 164 L and love it to death. I have driven a Q (surprisingly the one velodedoc has right now) and its definately more refined, which in my eyes makes it a little more dull, but it is fast!. The steering was Volvo light, as were the brakes, still a very nice car though. If its reliability you want, a 12V model is the one to go for in my book. I have seen too many posts of people with 24V cars that have jumped time, some escape without injury, some do not. I also like the feel of the early cars, mine has nice heavy steering with plenty of feedback, car drives good, just went over 200,000 miles and I am now just about to do a front end rebuild, maybe even the rear as well if money permits. I am curious though how much lighter my steering feel will be with the new strut bearings after the rebuild, maybe these cars do have light steering, in which case it will not be quite as sweet in my book, love that heavy steering! Anyhow, depends on how much you are willing to spend. Lots of nice 164 L's can be had for not too much money, and the performance difference between that and an S model is debatable. The L will have more down low grunt, the S a bit more on top at the sacrifice of low end torque. I hear the squadra chips sharpen up the torque curve across the rev range, so this I imagine can make up for the loss of torque in the S motor. Again its all about what you want to spend, but 4K will get you a really nice L, I recommend them highly!

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr AlfredoRomeo Hi Looking for some Input from other Alfisti, In the Market for my First Alfa Romeo I Really Like the Looks of the 91-93 S Class and the 94-95 Q Class 164 My Delema is,What is the Major Difference Between Them Other Than HP 200 vs 235. Is the Overall size of the Q vs S smaller between the two cars? also is newer Better? eg: Steppers,electrics,mechanical Thanks for your Help... Dr Alfredo

[e30sequel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve So where have you been for almost 3 years since this thread started? I agree with you but will go one further in that I am a semi-sedate 164B driver until I get in my son's 164S or my 75 year old friend's 164LS w/AT. I am able to do enough with my B and L to smoke many an unsuspecting Bimmer, Audi or Ricer rocketeer. I could get in trouble real fast with a steady diet of a 164S or 24v LS. I am even surer that a Q or Q4 ship would be my achilles heal. If I would act my age I guess a new Ford Taurus would be my cup of tea. Since I have been rodding for 50+ years I guess my habits won't change but don't think that sedate sedan thing will be happening in my lifetime. However, I chose to stay with 12v non-S because I can afford to maintain it both in repairs and court costs.

[jontg428]

Quote:

Originally Posted by e30sequel Alfisto, 1st of all, methinks that your habits SHOULD NOT change and power to you for stickin to it (wonder how the wife feels about these relationships....but thats another story) So, being the 'sensible' beast that I am, I have had the opportunity of dumping many paycheq's into my original 'S' and sensibility is now going to be my motivation in my new project. I will turn an L into an S lookalike, manual of course and the first order of business is to find a beat up S (closing the deal sometime this week) and tow it home! Next, find the same color L (hoping for NERO this time as it looks more uniform with the body kit) and just transfer over the tranny and new clutch, master/slave etc etc (any help in this regard would be MUCH appreciated) and the body parts. The issue for me is to COMPLETELY eliminate the dashboard guts ( bleepin stepper motor cost me the most $/time last time, altho I rarely used the AC!!, and if theres a way to permanently set the fan to feet and windshield for heat, pls let me know) and front seats (recaro, but super light!, anyone with suggestions?) along with related weight reduction!! I called this chap (Alfa Omega?) in San Diego and also asked whether it was possible to remove the AC (about 70 fkn pounds in a front driver CANNOT BE GOOD) BUT since its attached to the same belt as waterpump it kinda burst my bubble as this would mean fabrication, new (if it exists) size belt and also the cost factor also would be an unknown - This came from my '99 318ti which was perfect for this as there was an AC belt by itself and this gave me about 5-10mpg on a full tank and I don't know why this is NOT an option in N America ( the integra type R had this delete option from the factory and this alone made me put down the $ - was like a 'dream' sale for the salesguy as I looked initially like a know it all ******* and I remember him rolling his eyes as he first saw me!) Anyway, no one!!!! can touch pinifarina in sex appeal and the 164 is the ultimate for me!!! So, anyone who has successfully removed the AC and is driving this daily, please let me know as much as possible as I plan on this! While most of the tranny will be new anyway, I want to address the LSD from quaife (a 'call' item $ wise so any used ones out there??) and with the weight loss, I am hoping to address the power loss from S to L engine but hoping to gain longevity and any other solutions to this would be, again, much appreciated!! I understand i would NOT need to butcher the fr struts with non S front end!!?? Is this a fact and which would be the best bet (koni, etc) along with a very modest lowering or maybe S springs??!! So this would leave me with a 164 that I can later upgrade to an S engine wise (cams, Q intake runners, I will be fabricating mandrel bent stainless exhaust from Hot Rod Scott's @ kipling and queensway, toronto, 1k last time for my S and the ***** got stolen after the perfect howl was achieved...I am getting angry again.....give me a moment>>>>>>>>>>back, funny how some beer calms situations down! ok so any advice and you all have a wonderful day ok!!