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Bakelite Spark Plug Connectors

7K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  Anfanuts 
#1 · (Edited)
Gents, don't know where to post this (Resto, Elec, 750/101, etc.) but it's on/for a 65 Super so I'll start here.

My car came with what looks like possibly an original spark plug wire set, at least old. They are black wire with brown Bakelite plug connectors. See photos below. The #4 is "bent" as it sits under the air crossover duct. Before a recent long trip I had a catastrophic ignition problem and temporarily replaced them with a new 5mm Cavis green set with rubber connectors. Now wondering what to do with the originals.

I'd like the expertise of the board to peruse a few questions:

1. Were these indeed original style - black w/ Bakelite?

2. Did green Cavis wires come on early (ca 65) Supers? in 5 or 7mm?? I read that 5mm were on 101's and 65 105's share some in common but later 105's took 7mm.

3. Did any Cavis green wires come with the Bakelite end connectors ? (I ask this as from the ABB pic attached below, not of mine, where it looks like original Bakelite connectors were cobbled onto Cavis green wires)

4. Will I damage anything if I pry up the rubber end from the Bakelite piece? Is it a plug-in? I am considering putting the Cavis green wires onto the Bakelite connectors

Thanks for your input on any or all of these queries!! Bruce
 

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#3 ·
Yes, the 3rd pic has them looking like suppressors. The only way to check for certain is to ohm them out.
The bakelite connectors I'm familiar with actually screw into the center of the wire. If you peel back the boot on the wire, take a look inside. If you can't see any metal, try unscrewing the bakelite. If you can see metal, it may be a standard push-in connector.
 
#17 ·
From post #3 above.

Yes, the 3rd pic has them looking like suppressors. The only way to check for certain is to ohm them out.
The bakelite connectors I'm familiar with actually screw into the center of the wire. If you peel back the boot on the wire,...
- The Bakelite connector screws off with a coarse thread screw in the head of the Bakelite connector once you carefully peel the small boot back.
- They ohmed out at ~1000 (1k) ohms
And there's the answer; with 1000 ohms resistance (1 Kohm also being listed on the part), it is used to suppress EMI.
Easy task to put these on a standard set of wires if one wanted to. Pull the wire off the plug, pull back the rubber boot, cut the metal end off the wire, screw the resistor onto the wire, position rubber boot over the resistor and put it on the plug.
 
#6 ·
On my "old" ones, the Bakelite part is just the part that attaches to the spark plug in-lieu of a rubber boot. This attaches without the aluminum bulbous thing screwed onto the spark plug top. It attaches to the threaded rod sticking up (click-clip as you say). Yea Andrew, I think I had these on my old '65 VW long also, seen 'em somewhere. The wire attaches to it somehow and there is a small rubber boot, like one on the dizzy wire, that protects this joint.

The set in the 3rd above looks like someone grafted a Cavis green wire set onto the Bakelite connector, and not too gracefully at that as it incorporates the big spark plug boot from the Cavis wire. This seems wrong. The parts manual only shows wires for early TI's/Supers with or without supressors as needed (no radio in this car). It does not designate manufacturer but it would not surprise me if they are Bocsh as the whole ignition/electrical system is Bosch on this car.

Pic of current situation here, 5mm Cavis new repro wires. Again, I'm just wondering what might have been original and if these were, questions posted above.
 

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#8 ·
As an FYI, right around the time the above Info Sheet was published, Alfa started to switch from the green, non-resistor (suppression) ignition wires to resistor (suppression) wires which were red in color. The new resistor wires eliminated the need for separate, add-on resistors on each wire.
 
#10 ·
On paper, yes.

But I don't think that there is any way to know what exactly was on a particular car when it left the factory when the change to red wires was taking place. So one might argue that either the red or green wires would be correct the Bruce's 72. The 65 is a different matter though. It would have been supplied with green wires.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Gents, I have perused these posts several times. Thanks for your thoughts.

Some follow-on questions:

A. What document(s) cite that only "green" was original; document citation needed if available. PM indicates no colors and no options/alternatives. As papajam always indicated, Alfa lit (1st deg) takes precedence over outside lit (2nd deg), to him. Is this "anecdotal" (3rd deg). That is fine if so.

B. Are the brown connectors on my original black/Bakelite set resistors or just connectors? That is not clear to me. They appear to just be connectors. The PM seems to show a resistor insert to the connector for radio noise suppression. AFAIK, my car has never had a radio installed.

@VeloceOne - do they look kinda grafted like the picture of the green car above with the Bakelite thing attached to a long spark plug connector??

------------

I have inferred answers as follows [xxx]:

1. Were these indeed original style - black w/ Bakelite?
==>[Maybe not, perhaps aftermarket Bosch, citation needed, A above]

2. Did green Cavis wires come on early (ca 65) Supers? In 5 or 7mm?? I read that 5mm were on 101's and 65 105's share some in common but later 105's took 7mm.
==>[possibly, see 1 & A. No answer on 5 vs. 7mm. Chris at Highwood indicated this differentiated 101's form 105's.]

3. Did any Cavis green wires come with the Bakelite end connectors ? (I ask this as from the ABB pic attached, not of mine, where it looks like original Bakelite connectors were cobbled onto Cavis green wires)
==> [VeloceOne says possibly but possibly not OE.]

Cheers all, B

4. Will I damage anything if I pry up the rubber end from the Bakelite piece? Is it a plug-in? I am considering putting the Cavis green wires onto the Bakelite connectors.
==> [Probably no damage, pry and unscrew]
 
#13 · (Edited)
Scanning reference books for color pics. Not many.

I can make out green wires in Tabucchi in a rare color engine bay pic (63-66 Sprint GT) but cannot make out the detail on the connectors. No doubt early 60's 101's/105's had green Cavis wires (with rubber and Bakelite connectors??) from pictorial and anecdotal evidence. Was the black Bosch also an option of just aftermarket?

Next Fusi but my Quattroroute on Giulias is "checked out".

From another inquiry on AF decals, note Andrew the concentric tub-style air filter canister. Not offset like a or most Giulia Supers/TI's.
 

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#14 · (Edited)
Additional Info

After some time away and a few projects, I inspected the wireset more closely.

- The black wire says, "BOSCH" and they mic out at just under 7mm in diameter.

- The Bakelite connector screws off with a coarse thread screw in the head of the Bakelite connector once you carefully peel the small boot back.

- The end of the Bakelite connector says: "1 Kohm (ed. in symbol), BREMI (ed.?) - GERMANY KE4 - 10229N/1 -

- They ohmed out at ~1000 (1k) ohms

------------

Some thoughts:

+ They appear not to be any kind of suppressor but just a click-on plug connector (connecting to the threaded post). Standard plug wires.

+ The "TI/Super" parts manual ("62-4/70") does not list any manufacturer or alternates.

+ Still searching to determine if they were a possible original cable or aftermarket. I have seen pics of cars with Bakelite plug connectors on 101's or early 105's.

+ The plug connectors could be put on 7mm Cavis green wires with the screw-on feature also if that was correct. A 5mm wire would be too small.

Any more anecdotal info from anyone is appreciated.
 

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#15 ·
That's a nice discovery, Bruce. After you posted, Papajam and I got together and looked through some manuals. Well, he did all of the looking. They can be found on page 291 of the 1750 GTV/Spider parts manual. They also pop up in the 1300 GT Junior (Pubblic. 1516) on table 69, Giulia Super parts manual (Pubblic 1520) on page 277, Table 105, 1750 Berlina manual (Pubblic. 1380-R1) page 272 Table 90 and possibly a bunch more. I got tired of looking after the forth manual.

The Alfa part number is 105.23.05.905.00

So, it looks like I need to publicly eat a little crow and retract my statement about them being an aftermarket product. SLURP, BURP. :eek:
 

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#16 · (Edited)
Cut these two inquiries from above:

2. Did green Cavis wires come on early (ca 65) Supers? I5 or 7mm?? I read that 5mm were on 101's, and '65 105's share some in common, but later 105's took 7mm.

3. Did any Cavis green wires come with the Bakelite end connectors ? (I ask this as from the ABB pic attached below, not of mine, where it looks like original Bakelite connectors were cobbled onto Cavis green wires)
Thanks for the information above. Personally I don't eat crow and I don't serve it up. That's not my game, just information.

I ran across this last night looking at wheels and hubcaps for another thread. It's an early '65 Super (no cam cover tabs or breather) with "Cavis" green wires and what appear to be Bakelite plug connectors. But they are a lighter shade than the darker brown ones I have. Don't know if they are cobbled or original. The repro "Cavis" sets you can buy now (5mm & 7mm) have rubber plug connectors. They say the 5mm are for 750/101's and the 7mm's are for 105 cars. (Cavi means "wires/cables" in Italian.) Not prepared to make any generalization about what might have been original.

The 3rd photo of the green car I posted way above just does not look right. It looks like a Cavis green wire rubber connector grafted onto a Bakelite plug connector with the whole rubber plug boot. The Bosch ones I have come with a much smaller plug connector boot. It sticks up too high and would be too high to sit under the earlier air crossover duct.

I was hoping for some feedback form the 750/101 crowd but perhaps not many venture into the sedan thread.
 

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#18 ·
Alfanuts- sorry if I'm answering a question you didn't ask, 'cause I didn't take time to read all prior posts, but these connectors are common garden variety Bosch suppressor connectors as fitted to any and all 60's - early 70's BMW cars, AFAIK. All my round taillight BMW cars of the era: BMW 1800 (1966 ?), BMW 1600 (1967), BMW 2002 ( '70, 72', 72') had this type of wire sets when I owned them.
I don't absolutely know if they were all original to each model, but probably were. They often required replacement IIRC because the sparkplugs were on the exhaust side alongside each exhaust runner guaranteeing burned fingers if you didn't work on a cold engine- another reason I now prefer Alfas. Bakelite did not mean they were necessarily heat proof- I remember having a drawer full of spare toasted, crumbly-looking examples.
They can't be too hard to find as many '02 fanatics as there are and considering all the sources of restoration/o.e.m. parts suppliers catering to those cars. :D
 
#19 ·
Small correction to my post #4 and "black wire set" there. Our little Finnish groups senior member took a closer look about this set and found some partial marks of text which we believe had originally said CAVIS, see attached picture. Also colour is not a black as I wrote, but very dark green.
 

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#20 ·
Found this from Randy (101/105guy) in another post on hose clamps. He said this: "Same as ignition wire sets. I've found several with the original clamp. This set still has the Alfa 10526 part tag on it."

I've inquired of him if it is 7mm (looks to be), says "Cavis", and the rest of the part number. The Euripe parts houses have said that early 105's had 7mm green Cavis wires. Who knows . . .
 

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#22 · (Edited)
I've pretty much concluded (as far as one can be certain abut ANYTHING with an Alfa) that my 65's black wires that say Bosch and have the 1000 ohm Bakelite resistor plug connectors are not original to the car. Probably near-period replacements. It's a bit confusing as to whether they are "supressors" as the lit posted seems to say that the plug connectors should be 5000 ohm, with a 5000 ohm on the center wire, and there might be a bunch of capacitors installed in a radio supression system.

But reference the post above, still trying to establish what was original on an early 105, ca. 62-65-68 or so. I'll go with the Euro theory that it went to a 7mm green "Cavis" wireset at some point after 750/101's. But Perhaps early 105's overlapped with 101's with 5mm to some point ??? Same basic engine to 66 and it doesn't make sense to have several different wiresets on the assembly line bins?? A similar thread in 101's (LINK) indicates the 5mm green Cavis wireset might have been original.
 
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